AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

[windygallows]

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

"However there are many ways women can lead fulfilling lives without partnering up and having kids"

Exactly this. Not for one moment knocking people who want to get married and have kids (or just get married). Just find it bizarre to have it presented as 'the' route to happiness, success, fulfilment etc for women.

I would prefer for my children to get good educations with a good career path and be in control of their own financial futures. I would never encourage them to see value someone's income as a quality to be sought after in a partner. There would a long list of other qualities i would value in a potential partner way before I would place income. I think work ethic, education, kindness, shared values, respect, chemistry, outlook would all be higher up the priority list. I would put wealth and looks as nice but not essential.

This is exactly, exactly right. Sorry but it's such a flimsy thing to consider a priority. Materialism is a hollow pursuit as well, not something I would ever want to encourage my DD to see as being more important, or even equal to, values you have as a human being.

Haven't RTFT but read enough to get the gist that some PP are horrified/outraged by the OP.

IMO, YANBU. I think it perfectly acceptable to encourage your DD to marry someone who is financially stable and in a well paid career with prospects for future development etc. Money isn't the be all and end all but when you have money, it doesn't matter, if you don't have it, it matters a lot. I know that if I had married someone with a well paid career that I wouldn't get worked up when DH spends money thoughtlessly and selfishly while I'm scraping every penny in the corner, shopping at Aldi's and seeing where I can save, buying from charity shops and thinking that £4 is a bit steep for a pair of trousers for my 3 year old.

Yes, of course your DD should find someone that loves her and cherishes her - money can't buy that in a relationship. But if she's looking for a partner, I wouldn't encourage her to look at the well paid, nicely turned out, respectful gentleman rather than the minimum wage paid lad down the road. I know people will flame me but this forum is for opinions, not everyone will agree on the topics.

*WOULD not wouldn't

Ffs

Hi everyone,lots of different views overall seems that most mums agree that they want there kids marrying well including marrying a good man who you love who's doing relatively well financially.I don't think there's anything wrong with that however as a mum myself of 5 kids eldest 16 (boy) 10 year old (boy ) 3 girls:8,7 and 6 months I would encourage all of them to do the best they can at school and what they enjoy.The most important thing is how they behave:being kind,loyal ,doing chores,helping me with the baby so when the boys become someone's partner they will Hoover/cook dinner/make coffee/wash up/do washing.Im proud to say my 16 year old boy does all those things and babysits .He also will be going to college with c's.He is more practical then academic so he will become a farmer or chef at present he's deciding between the two.I can see already my girls are much more academic They are both the top of there class and my second son is the top of his class in maths and has extraordinary ideas in English.However I wouldn't say my son is less worthy as a partner,he wakes up early at 6 am every day gets dressed and takes the train to school.Hes extremely independent and very kind to his girlfriend won't have sex until they're older and even wants to be living together or engaged to take care of her first even though they've been together for a year.Ofcourse I want my girls to do well in there careers and be happy with a good man so when the time comes that they want to have kids they might decide to work from home or be a stay at home mum later on in life they would be able to afford to do so by being with a good man who will work.I would not care about how much money he would make if there bills are paid and they have enough for an average lifestyle same as the home she comes from.If he had a very low paid job I'm sure my husband and I would perhaps encourage him to get a higher qualification to get a better job and support him financially to do that.Education is not just about money it's about broadening you're mind and world to grow as an individual but I have been told I'm a anti capitalist so I already have too many arguments against the way our society is and our expectations.My parents were very wealthy but they deliberately lived a very normal live in the way they raised us.I had to work part time for my own money for things and we never had designer clothes we would give a lot of money and time to different charities .I have often at holiday times taken the kids with old toys that are like new to hospitals to visit sick kids and to old people's homes.So they appreciate what they have.Surely that's the way to bring up our kids?After all the more money you have the more you get used to it and don't appreciate it you want more.Personally I don't want my kids to grow up to be like that.Theres a massive big world out there where kids don't have food to eat or clothes to wear.Happiness comes from inside the simple enjoyment of life and the things that are free ofcourse we need our simplest pyramid needs to be met but I wouldn't get over worried about money after that for them.

I'd prefer my daughter to marry a man she loves and makes her happy. I did. I have to work because we can't afford for me not to and I'm in a well paid job as is my husband. That has little effect on my marriage or view of myself. I'd love to be SAHM but I also love my job and having time to myself that I wouldn't get otherwise. I think I would actually resent my husband if he worked and I didn't.

Anyway, that's slightly off topic but my answer is that I'd rather she marry someone she loves

I find this ridiculous.

As if parents have any influence over who their children fall in love with!

Fact remains you tend to marry people in same or similar financial environment as you. So, if grew up in a low earning family, you are far more likely to be a low earner yourself and chances are will marry a low earner. And vice versa . Of course there are exceptions, but this is in the main.

The double standards are amazing, women saying a good work ethic, not lazy and decent salary are what they take into account whilst looking for a mate yet many do nothing themselves or very little.

I think you are misrepresenting yourself.

All you are saying is you want your daughter to marry someone who would "fit in" because he shares your values, the values by which you have brought up your children.

Nothing wrong with that!

You are in good company OP in being concerned about the income per year of a prospective spouse: wasn't Jane Austen supposed to have written: 'it is wrong to marry for money but foolish to marry without it'

I agree that I'll encourage both my children to 'marry well' and hope that they will be good partners and the 'marry well ' option for others too.

However, I don't think that aiming for someone rich/well-off is the way to do this.

The marriage ceremony 'richer or poorer' bit is relevant. Fortunes change - very suddenly and completely sometimes. (We have lived through this ourselves.)

If you marry the sort of person who you can live happily rich or poor -you have married well and will be ready to adapt to what life brings.

Being a SAHM can be wonderful but not if you feel worthless in the eyes of a spouse to whom money = worth.

Sounds fine - if you live in the 1930's!!
A bit sexist to suggest women should seek someone to financially support them rather than strive to make their own successful career. And I doubt there would be any agreement if a DM said on here that she was urging her DS to find a rich woman to marry - that would be seen as reprehensible, and that he should support himself...

So why is it considered OK for women to do this? They may like to be a sahm, but a man might equally like to be the sah parent? it seems rather calculating to pick a partner based on their ability to support you completely financially if you don't fancy working while the DCs are small (or perhaps for your whole adult life!).

I would never encourage my daughters to marry a wealthy man. Marrying a wealthy man does not mean marrying a generous man. I will encourage them to work hard and live their dreams before they consider marriage if that's what they want. Love is almost never practical, so marrying well to me just means marrying a good man.

Very well put.

Lots of people defining much nicer meanings for 'marrying well', which is nice.
And telling the OP she meant something less materialistic:
All you are saying is you want your daughter to marry someone who would "fit in" because he shares your values, the values by which you have brought up your children.

But the OP was definitely talking just about money!
Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession -
I think its also known as 'gold digging'!

In the OPs later post though she does say she agrees that my and other people's suggestsions of assortive mating - marrying someone similar to you - someone who fits in with the family, is likely you get and these days usually means similar in terms of exam grades kind of univesrity and career choice works well (and it does). It's what matchmakers do all over the planet including Indian ones who will try to match two MBA holders never mind caste.

Interestingly ds says he wouldn't mind being a SAHD. I've told him that SAHanything is a dying breed and he'll need to find a corporate lawyer wife if he wants to strum his guitar all day and do a bit of hoovering now and again.

I'd be interested to know how many SAHM on here do the equivalent of bum around on a guitar and pick up a vacuum cleaner occasionally!

I agree with all PP that "marrying well" equates in my eyes to marrying someone who shares your core values, work ethic, attitude to money (a saver married to a spender can work without resentment but it's more tricky) and who respects you (and is someone that you can also respect).

My DH earned far less than me when we got together and therefore it made sense for him to SAH - have I married well? I'd say yes, given all he does to keep our family running. He's very much the exception as can be seen by attitudes further up the thread. He obviously has 😉

Should I be telling my sons to look for high flying high earning girlfriends? Or should I tell them to find someone that they want to spend time with, that they can laugh with, that will share the hard work as well as the fun? My boys will look for their equals in all aspects of their relationships I hope.

Why encourage daughters to marry at all? Let them decide for themselves if they want to marry and if they do (I'm sure they probably will as most do) whether they want to have children. As I said earlier in the thread I really hope even if anyone with daughters thinks like this, they don't tell their daughters. I'd find it very disheartening if my mum did. Women are excelling in so many roles and fields, let daughters discover what's right for them, whatever that may be. If anyone's daughters or sons find they want to be a SAHP, support them in that. If they want to excel in a particular career and strive for the top, support them in that. There are so many top roles in this country today occupied by women and the number is increasing, despite the barriers.

If any of my friends said their parents advised them to "marry well" with "well" being a man with high earning potential, I'd be stunned. I've never even considered marriage or who I might marry if I chose to. I have thought a lot about my future career, where I want to go to university and the field I may want to go into. This is the kind of thing which is occupying the plans of the girls I know, not who they might marry.

Nooooooooooooo, not in this day and age .
Money doesn't make you happy , though its nice ,whereas a person you respect and love will always be in your heart .
Some of the most violent and unhappy marriages I know have been for money and position

I was a sahm who did the above.
I spent 25 years getting away with doing bugger all
So I'll admit to doing my fair share of bumming around, it wasn't a guitar though. I have lots of hobbies and interests.

I think marrying well means finding the person who shares your values and is prepared to put your career equal if not in front of their own.
I have encouraged my dd to follow her dream and not to be put off by convention and to do what makes her happy, irrespective of any man she should meet.

Yes and yes! 😃

Would you encourage your son to 'marry well' in case he wants to be a SAHD? Why should we 'encourage' our children to get married and have kids anyway - it's not the only path to a fulfilling life.

I wouldn't say you were being unreasonable to encourage your daughters to marry money. I would, however, say that you are teaching them a shallow and false set of values [which presumably reflect your own]. A person's worth and value is not measured by the amount of money they have or have the potential to earn, and encouraging your daughters to think that way bears an uncomfortable resemblance to well-paid and monogamous prostitution. I have two daughters who have married well - that is they are in marriages based on love, respect, loyalty, kindness and unselfishness - on both sides. As to what their husbands earn I have not the faintest idea, nor have I ever considered it any of my business.

This is so difficult. Think about the opposite though. Would you discourage them marrying a lazy no hoper who would probably offer a life of scrimping, benefits or criminality? I suppose what you really need is a more rounded set of expectations, but being totally dependent can reap a bad harvest.

To me, marrying well meant marrying a kind, generous, considerate, hardworking man. My husband was a teacher like me when we married so a good profession but not one of the top earners.

His occupation/salary was not the reason I married him.

As it is, for a variety of reasons, DH left teaching at Christmas and is now running a small business. Doing ok but not megabucks and I am now the main earner.

It still makes no difference to either of us and I still think I have married well.

As someone else said, the marriage vow 'for richer, for poorer' is important! If you wouldn't want to be with someone if their fortune changed, you should probably think twice about marrying them.

This attitude to marrying well sets feminism back 100 years. Yes it's absolutely fine to consider a future husbands prospects. If he will be able to support you and any family adequately but consider this.

If you have this Victorian attitude towards marriage, you must accept all the responsibilities that go with it. You must be a proper old fashioned housewife. Entirely reponsible for childcare and housework. Your husband can expect his pipe and slippers and a hot meal on the table when he returns from work. You can expect to leave it to him to make all major decisions for you and your family. All property is his and should your marriage fail, it is his legal right to keep the children.

That is how things were 100 years ago. The home was women's work. Even then, working class women invariably worked outside the home as well.

You couldn't say, 'could you bathe the children tonight?' Because, in fairness, he couldn't say, 'will you go to that board meeting for me?'

Women can't have it all ways. We want equality and that means pitching in with the work alongside men. Division of labour according to the demands of finances and family. That brings true equality.