AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

[windygallows]

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

the whole 'marry well' attitude just stinks of 'legal prostitution'.

Many people aren't lucky enough to move in circles/have a peer group/ be from a demographic where upstanding chaps with plenty of cash are plentiful. I would argue that those who are/do, are perfectly capable/privileged enough to aspire to/achieve a decent career of their own.

Bluepepper I was actually trying to address some posters earlier in the thread who wrote that they wanted to teach their DDs to be independent and stand on their own. I was trying to make a point that if we are going to encourage our DDs to be independent, and really don't expect them to marry, then they really do need to be on a high salary to live a good life solo. Otherwise are parents assuming their DDs will have a spouse and benefit from that, but dear god not ever considering their earning potential?!

To your point, do you really think that a single woman can have as good a life on 30k as a couple, one who works FT and one who works PT? Even if one if one in the couple is a SAHM for a period of time there is likely to be an overall financial advantage and a reduction in risk, through spreading risk. Keep in mind single women w/o children are rarely are entitled to any tax benefits, or social housing (if that even exists anymore).

I didn't have any friends at school who wanted to get married and have babies. The school wasnt like that. Girls won't think of themselves as limited unless we tell them that they are, which is what the OP wants to do to her own daughters. Unless she's also planning to give them a crystal ball, so they can know which men won't leave them in the lurch, it's the worst possible advice to give to a girl.

What a load of tosh.

Encourage your daughters to make their own choices, make their own life and choose to share it with someone who they are happy to be with. If our girl decides she wants to marry a binman, she can marry a binman. And her life will be what together they make it.

She will have the savvy and determination to make her own way, because I will raise her to have that. If she doesn't end up with the skills to make her own way in life, I will have failed her as a parent. There is no way I would then suggest she makes up for my failings by only marrying someone who has money.

And remember, for every girl we insist must "marry well" there is a boy who doesn't "make it" and will be passed over and treated as inferior, simply because he works a job that doesn't make a lot of money. A nurse or a carer, a janitor or a farmer.

That message isn't one ANY of our young people should be given. Everyone is worth something and if we tell them only money is worthwhile, we set them up for a future of despair.

To your point, do you really think that a single woman can have as good a life on 30k as a couple, one who works FT and one who works PT?

Absolutely. My husband's salary was less than £30k when he was supporting both of us while I had CFS.

I guess everyone is enjoying the bun fight discussion but has ANYONE actually said that they would tell their DDs that they shouldn't bother with a career and should just look for a wealthy husband because I don't think anyone has....

As far as I can see everyone wants to encourage their DDs to work hard and not to rely on a man

I'm a bit confused what all the squabbling is about.

You have been talking about encouraging young women to prostitute themselves so they can live in a big house.
I'm just flabbergasted by this.

Back for good, I'm posing a question not proposing prostitution. And who are we kdding - many radical feminists believe the construct of marriage itself is deeply flawed, benefits men and ultimately prostitutes women. So it's a slippery slope, perhaps.

Wasn't it Mary Wollstonecraft who first equated marriage to a state of 'legal prostitution' --- but no marriage is okay, just not if you're mercenary about it!

"Girls won't think of themselves as limited unless we tell them that they are"

I didn't think of myself as limited till the world of work and relationships started fucking me over. It makes little difference what they think of themselves as, the pay gap exists; women get sacked or passed over for being assertive and "unlikeable"; they are extremely vulnerable when pregnant; their husbands cannot breastfeed

"Encourage your daughters to make their own choices, make their own life and choose to share it with someone who they are happy to be with. If our girl decides she wants to marry a binman, she can marry a bin man"

Interesting example. Bin men [sic] are traditionally very well paid relative to equivalently unskilled work traditionally done by women. In other words - by reaching for this ready example, you are tacitly acknowledging that men tend to be better paid than women and marrying a man with a steady job - any job - is better than trying to go it alone

Bin men [sic] are traditionally very well paid relative to equivalently unskilled work traditionally done by women.

So she'd be better off getting a job on the bin lorry than marrying a bin man.

On the contrary, when it comes to dealing with adversity and unfairness, it matters a great deal what girls think of themselves. I have encountered some of the difficulties you mention as well as some others, and I credit my background and upbringing with giving me the strength and will to improve my situation by fighting against them, not rolling over.

Well when my DD went off to uni (science at a highly prestigious uni) I felt like a bit of a Mrs Bennet to point out to her that she would never again meet so many single men who were likely to earn serious money. (at least by my standards) so that if she thought she wanted marriage and family in her 20s/30s (she already knew she did) then she should get out there and have a great social life as well as getting a good degree. Fortunately she learnt by my mistakes and found herself a lovely, clever, sensible, hard working, kind, gorgeous fella as unlike her father as could be and married him.

I wish someone had had that conversation with me.

I mean if she had said that she wanted to travel the world, never marry, devote herself to a career, or whatever she wanted to do that'd be absolutely fine. But actually she already knew she wanted financial security, a loving husband, a house, garden and babies as well as a great job, and it isn't only the great job that doesn't happen by accident.

Not everybody has a job with a salary scale or that is predictable. If I think of a few of the most wealthy men I know, they have all made their money, not through the obvious professions, but mainly in their early to mid 40s through entrepreneurship e.g. sale of a .com company, for instance. These days they may be worth 100 million or more, but their wives could not have predicted this situation when they got married and had DC in their early 30s. All the men I know who "made it" in mid/life, believe their wives have been an integral part of their success and are glad that they have a family, yet were still able to see things through business-wise without having to curtail their ambition or focus. Unless there is family money involved, few men are rich in the dating days of their 20s. More usually it's a joint success story which happens over time due to mutual support, respect and hard work "over and above" what many people would be prepared to accept.

I'm sorry missymayhem but any self respecting girl with anything about her vomits on her mother when she gives her advice like that and fucks off to goa with a long haired layabout to smoke dope on the beach.
'Twas thus in my day anyway.

"😂 at the idea it's easy to become a doctor. Seriously?"

I'm saying the opposite - that it's very difficult to become a doctor and impossible for most people.

(we presume, we don't know - she might be a genius that found it really easy)

I obviously misunderstood your post then, Gwen?

"So she'd be better off getting a job on the bin lorry than marrying a bin man."

You have to be physically strong and fast so the average woman is at a disadvantage.

"(we presume, we don't know - she might be a genius that found it really easy)

I obviously misunderstood your post then, Gwen?"

Yes, you didn't read very carefully, did you? This was about her having worked hard, not about how hard it is to become a doctor. I also agreed with you in that I presumed she had worked hard, but also offered another possibility just in case as, of course, it's only Bottles who can tell us how hard she works/worked.

I read carefully. And the implication was that is was possible to become a dr by being clever. It isn't.

But whatevs

Antigrinch

I'm not tacitly acknowledging anything of the sort.

The average salary for a refuse collector in our area is 25.5k per year. Not the sort of salary which would be easy to live on if she chose to be a SAHM

But if he is a decent fellow (or indeed if she chooses a decent lass) and they are happy together, they will find their own way in the world and cut their cloth accordingly. The only way that women will find equality is to plough their own path and make something of themselves. Whether they chose to be refuse collectors or lawyers.

"And the implication was that is was possible to become a dr by being clever. It isn't.

But whatevs smile"

I said if she were a genius, so quite an extreme possibility.

Well I'd rather be poor and utterly in love with my partner than well off and hate him.

I've been through a lot of shit with DP, many years of us starting at the bottom of the ladder and struggling. We're more well off now but if I'd have had to "marry well" in the start, DP would've been out of the picture.

Personally, I'll be teaching my kids to marry someone you love. It's much easier to face the world and its troubles if you're doing it with someone you love.

I was trying to make a point that if we are going to encourage our DDs to be independent, and really don't expect them to marry, then they really do need to be on a high salary to live a good life solo

You are wrong. Your whole premise is based on something that is incorrect.

You will never accept that, I know. I don't know why. But it is possible to live a good life, solo, on less than a high salary.

Surely you must know some people who are happy and not on a high income? Is your circle really that closed?

"The average salary for a refuse collector in our area is 25.5k per year. "

Wow, that is more than I'm likely ever earn in this country. Wish I was strong and fit!

I'm single, since leaving my husband. I'm a teacher, so not on a high salary.

I'm really, really happy.