AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

[windygallows]

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

"If a DD of mine - to go back to another post - somehow ended up only earning £10k, I would be encouraging her to retrain, not to give up on earning and marry a rich man."

How would she afford to retrain as an adult?

"I also agree with the person that says that most professionals want to marry a fairly equal professional, the days of marrying a nice devoted but essentially less educated wife and letting her stay home while you all survive on one income are truly over."

I'm really not sure about that. I think most men end up with women in similar jobs because that's who they spend time with. I remember a male friend laughing at his sister complaining that she couldn't find a man despite having a good job and saying that men really aren't that impressed by that.

"What's the point of telling your daughter to marry for money - she can't choose who she falls in love with or who falls in love with her?"

She can choose who she dates.

Fuck me - what a depressing thread. I became a doctor because I wanted to be control of my own destiny and earning potential. I have been in a few relationships with men who earned more than me and I fucking hated it. There is an expectation for you to be grateful for all the money they insist on spending on you and "know your place". No thanks.

Back for Good to your point about salaries, I was actually trying to say that as a single woman you need to be on a much bigger salary than a couple. Do you know 60k for one person is the equivalent of a couple making 30k and 22k respectively which as you say is easy to live on. A single woman on 22k or 30k --- a lot, lot harder to get by.

My point is that people are generally advantaged by coming together in marriage and that if we want our daughters to be independent and don't necessarily expect them to marry, they're going to have to earn a hell of a lot more on their own than if they were in a couple.

"There is an expectation for you to be grateful for all the money they insist on spending on you and "know your place". No thanks."

yes this is the other side of the coin. It's a long time since I had experience of that, and never in a very serious relationship but I think that is what I was running from when I got to my string of under-achievers that occupied most of my late 20s and 30s

"I became a doctor because I wanted to be control of my own destiny and earning potential. "

How nice for you Bottles. You do know that most people can't be doctors, don't you?

Gwen that sounded really, really rude and dismissive.

In that case, WindyGallows your thread should be 'AIBU to encourage my dc to get together with a partner' - nothing to do with having to marry a rich man if you are a woman. Of course 2 people together can get bigger mortgage, but that isn't what you have been suggesting. You have been talking about encouraging young women to prostitute themselves so they can live in a big house.
I'm just flabbergasted by this.
My Mum would be appalled at your thinking, and she was born in 1931 - indeed, I think it's pretty fair to say my Grandmother would be too, and she was born in the Century before that! I'm just stunned that you think this is a good way to be thinking in the 21st century. Indeed, perhaps it's because I'm older that I'm angry about it. I mentioned it to my 18 yr old dd, and she just laughed - felt it was so ridiculous that she wouldn't bother engaging with someone who was talking such piffle.

Oh I don't know. I went to medical school at 26, and spent half of my degree as a single parent. I am not desperately intelligent, grew up on a council estate and funded it all myself, I just made a decision to try and fulfil my potential rather than settle for a "good marriage". Plenty of people I know of similar intelligence have just sought out a rich man. Unless people challenge the status quo things will never change. I am certainly not going to teach my daughter that her best course of action in life is to look for a solvent, suitable match like a character from pride and prejudice thanks.

It is ok to need and want help. It is ok to expect and hope that you will have a partner who will not require you to take care of every damn thing.

I never relied on my partner and now he's gone. I am torn between thinking "just as well I'm ok on my own" and thinking it was my fault; I was too independent; I could / should have coached him to be a proper partner but didn't know how and drove him away instead.

Is it really something to aspire to that you HAVE EVERYTHING COVERED, THANKS? (even were it possible)

I think it is a feminist aspiration (or at least does not remotely conflict with feminism) to hold hopes for our daughters (and sons) that they will be respected and supported by their partners; and it is a fairly feminist observation that this is not remotely the default for women now; and that we can do better. I accepted a crap man (several actually but one I had children with) and I let myself down.

IMO, marrying for money is just a step up from prostitution. Other opinions are available.

Also, I don't think it's possible for every woman to snag themselves an eligible batchelor or even meet a decent guy. Many of my friends are mid thirties and single - thank goodness most of them have had the wherewithal to work on getting decent careers.

"Gwen that sounded really, really rude and dismissive."

If you meant my comment to the doctor, I suppose I meant it to be. It's so frustrating when very successful women write on here as if everyone could have their life if only they worked hard enough or as if their life is relevant to everyone.

"I just made a decision to try and fulfil my potential rather than settle for a "good marriage"."

Yes, but you have more potential than most.

I did mean that, yes.

She didn't say that.

I'm puzzled as to how being rude to someone who has worked hard helps anyone?

"You have been talking about encouraging young women to prostitute themselves"

She really hasn't. She hasn't encouraged anyone to have sex with someone they don't like in exchange for money. I think she's just suggesting that a man's income is one of the things a woman might look at when deciding who to date.

Gwen no, I dont think that of all people in low paid jobs, but the Op suggested that a good alternative for a girl who wasn't academic was not to tell her to work hard to get at least some GCSE's, but to not bother, just hang around some nightclub hoping to pick up a footballer or something. If your child does not want to achieve their potential, whether that be to struggle to pass GCSE maths and English or a PHD, because 'they are not ambitious and dont want a career', as the OP said, the right thing to do would be to impress on her how important it is to try your best and achieve her potential, not 'oh never mind, just marry some bloke who earns more than you. They are ten a penny round here!'

"I'm puzzled as to how being rude to someone who has worked hard helps anyone?"

I was trying to help her see the other side of things, which is that most people aren't lucky enough to be doctors, so her situation is not universally applicable. The fact that she has worked hard to be a doctor (we presume, we don't know - she might be a genius that found it really easy), doesn't mean that she's not (also) very lucky and privileged.

And I bet I'd do a lot more childcare than a lot of dads in the same position - because I'd want to make up the time I was missing by WOH! (And I'd still do basic housework like not leaving crap/used coffee mugs/laundry lying around, and would tidy as I go etc, something else that often goes unnoticed.)

How impressive that in your imaginary scenario you're so much better than us waster dads who really do have to manage f/t work, childcare, housework, etc., working shitty hours to accommodate childcare and our spouse's p/t job, or taking on more than we can manage just to get another few quid in at the end of month.

windy if your comment is that life is easier when there tow people in a couple, well that's right. At least financially.
It hasn't noting to do with 'marrying well' and knowing yoU will be able to go part time or be a SAHM.
Because in that case, you are still basically living on one wage.

And if you can be living as a family of two adults plus children one one wage, then there is no advantage to get married as you will be able to live even more comfortably with that one wage and a family of one adult and children.

Your reasoning seems to imply that women will never be able to earn as much as men and that therefore they need men to be able to survive.
They don't.

😂 at the idea it's easy to become a doctor. Seriously?

And being snippy isn't a great way to get someone to consider what you're saying.

I think it is a feminist aspiration (or at least does not remotely conflict with feminism) to hold hopes for our daughters (and sons) that they will be respected and supported by their partners; and it is a fairly feminist observation that this is not remotely the default for women now; and that we can do better.

Anti I agree with you there.
And YY to do better. If we all up our standards and not accept that sort of shitty behaviour, men will have to step up.

I have many friends from school who weren't very ambitious and just wanted to get married and have babies.

And why do you think they wanted this? Where and how do you think these choices/wants were born? Just random coincidence?

I always tell my DD she should marry someone with a good work ethic, to me this is the priority. I dint disagree though, I work more hours than DH at the moment simply because I can earn the most money. I often wish it was the other way around.