'There is no need for feminism in first world countries because females are no longer oppressed...'

[TinyRick]

And apparently we have 'more rights than men now'.

One example of many - www.debate.org/opinions/women-are-not-oppressed-in-first-world-countries

I was going to post this on the Feminism boards but I have heard this from females too so thought I would post here to see views from those who do think this and agree with it.

I'm on a social media site and this comes up quite often. Yes, quite presumably from young males but I have also read about the 'Red Pill' and the 'MGTOW' movements which are mostly populated by the older males.

Aibu to think that Feminism in the first world is still needed and as relevant as ever? And amongst our 'luxuries' we are still the oppressed class?

You wait til you've had a phone call from your adult daughter saying "Mum-he hit me"

Then come back and tell me there's no need for feminism.

academic gender pay gap

Cath
I am an academic and academics are on publicly available salaries. As the link shows - it is from a union not a feminist group - UK universities routinely pay male and female staff of the same grade different salaries. I believe the gap is biggest at professor level where women at most UK universities earn less than their male counterparts.

Admittedly that is from 2016 so probably too old to count.....

54 000 women in the UK were made unemployed due to pregnancy last year

Our bodily functions are taxed

Last week trump repealed legislation that protects women in the workplace

Assertive woman? Nope you're bossy

There are so many reasons why we need feminism, why women should be standing up and saying no enough.

I was always a feminist but others have said having a daughter who will also grow up to be a WOC has really lit a fire in me, I've had many heated discussions with my husband who just doesn't get it, although he's starting to.

Lweji, of couse others have had a chance to recieve promotions - they were there at the time!
So you think someone who has been missing from work for maybe two out of three/four years should have equal opportunity for promotion with someone who has worked throughout? Sounds great for staff morale for those not on leave.
Johnny, that link is to a generalised statistic, not specific examples. I can't see anything that goes into the nitty gritty of equal pay for equal circumstances.
I would find it hard to believe that no women referenced in the report had taken maternity leave or worked part time, for instance.
If those circumstances are not taken into account (and they rarely are) it's not a fair comparison.

I would find it hard to believe that no women referenced in the report had taken maternity leave or worked part time, for instance.
If those circumstances are not taken into account (and they rarely are) it's not a fair comparison.

Which is part of the point, woman by definition are the ones that have the babies. It is not really a choice as men can't do it.

I was refused a promotion as i was pregnant

It was a long time ago though

Lweji, of couse others have had a chance to recieve promotions - they were there at the time!
So you think someone who has been missing from work for maybe two out of three/four years should have equal opportunity for promotion with someone who has worked throughout?

It's a difficult problem. How to compensate women for having children and caring for them?
And not 3 or 4 years, but one is enough to miss a lot.

In my experience, as an academic, it is very obvious not only that women do get passed over for promotion but also that this bears no correlation to whether they have actually ever been pregnant or not.

Highly qualified childless women are just as likely to end up doing basic admin and teaching tasks while younger male colleagues overtake them on the career ladder. So how can this be explained by the time taken out by pregnancies?

Is it reasonable that women should have lower pay and be miss out on promotion because some other woman has had a baby? Because ime that is precisely what happens.

I've been refused a promotion because I was pregnant when I go back to work (full time 40 hrs a week) I probably won't go back to a position of responsibility equal to the one I had prior to my pregnancy (my responsibility was reduced as soon as I revealed my pregnancy) the chances of me getting the promotion I've worked hard for and deserve now? slim to non.

There are more men sitting in the House of Commons right now than there have been female MPs in total.

Well, apparently in Iceland they brought in an obligatory six months paternity leave to match the six months maternity leave precisely to counteract the tendency of employers to discriminate against women.

Then they found out that, as an added bonus, men were bonding much better with their children and were much more responsable fathers.

So win-win.

A woman frightened of a strange man walking behind her is being 'paranoid and mean spirited' in feeling anxious, yet on the other hand thats why men who self ID as women are allowed in womens spaces.

Women are now called bigots if they dont want to undress in front of a stranger who appears to be a man.

Men are allowed to hate their sex organs so much they have them amputated. but lesbians are not allowed to refuse to have sex with a penis, if its owner self ID's as a woman.

TERF is a slur used against women, there is no equivalent slur for men who dont want to suck a female penis.

MTF tell lesbians to learn to love trans dick but never tell straight men to suck them off.

@Fauchelevent - no rape was suggested in that case.

@OfficerVanHalen - Huffington Post, Telegraph and yougov are clickbait?

@Mermaidinthesea123

In my opinion every woman is still oppressed by her partner/husband and is expected to exchange sex for commodities.

Aren't you a whole lot of crazy! I read an article recently about how every mixed-race relationship is rape because of the power a white person has and it's therefore sex through coercion. I guess you agree!

Which is why I am steadfastly single after two failed marriages.

Chicken and egg, eh?

@ChathF

Constant portrayal of women as passive victims does us no favours at all.

Absolutely.

@OfficerVanHalen

But when feminists suggest political lesbianism or refusing to breed with men...

Have they? You have to be pretty batshit-crazy to become a political lesbian. Has this ever been suggested? Maybe in the circles you move in.

@BrainSaysNo - wrong thread. Nothing about messages.

@jellyfrizz

It's ok that women are paid less because they 'choose' to have children.

If their work is less productive because of it then yes. As @Lweji said, "Mothers return to work in the same role, thus missing out on promotions that other women and, particularly, men have had a chance at and they receive less money because they are not "working". Well, they are caring for the next generation that will pay for and work for the current generation in their old age."

Which is part of the point, woman by definition are the ones that have the babies. It is not really a choice as men can't do it.

Yes. You cannot expect to be given extra pay for less work because you choose to have a baby. Because you can do it but men can't doesn't give you extra points on the pay scale.

@DJBaggySmalls

lesbians are not allowed to refuse to have sex with a penis

There's a law that lesbians must have sex with a man if they say they're a woman? Is that true or are you typing nonsense.

Your post was quite vulgar. Was it intentional?

@Fauchelevent - no rape was suggested in that case.

@OfficerVanHalen - Huffington Post, Telegraph and yougov are clickbait?

@Mermaidinthesea123

In my opinion every woman is still oppressed by her partner/husband and is expected to exchange sex for commodities.

Aren't you a whole lot of crazy! I read an article recently about how every mixed-race relationship is rape because of the power a white person has and it's therefore sex through coercion. I guess you agree!

Which is why I am steadfastly single after two failed marriages.

Chicken and egg, eh?

@ChathF

Constant portrayal of women as passive victims does us no favours at all.

Absolutely.

@OfficerVanHalen

But when feminists suggest political lesbianism or refusing to breed with men...

Have they? You have to be pretty batshit-crazy to become a political lesbian. Has this ever been suggested? Maybe in the circles you move in.

@BrainSaysNo - wrong thread. Nothing about messages.

@jellyfrizz

It's ok that women are paid less because they 'choose' to have children.

If their work is less productive because of it then yes. As @Lweji said, "Mothers return to work in the same role, thus missing out on promotions that other women and, particularly, men have had a chance at and they receive less money because they are not "working". Well, they are caring for the next generation that will pay for and work for the current generation in their old age."

Which is part of the point, woman by definition are the ones that have the babies. It is not really a choice as men can't do it.

Yes. You cannot expect to be given extra pay for less work because you choose to have a baby. Because you can do it but men can't doesn't give you extra points on the pay scale.

@DJBaggySmalls

lesbians are not allowed to refuse to have sex with a penis

There's a law that lesbians must have sex with a man if they say they're a woman? Is that true or are you typing nonsense.

Your post was quite vulgar. Was it intentional?

I haven't read the whole thread yet, though I will.

The thread that challenged me most recently was a woman who had carefully planned her career break in order to ensure she could return full time after children with minimal impact on her progress. Her DH was then offered a promotion, which meant she would be unable to return full time.

It was a very quiet, mundane story, but that woman had made every effort to protect her equal career status, but was going to lose it anyway.

There is still an inevitability around women ending up penalised, despite their every effort.

My husband's body has never been touched without his consent.
He thinks sexual assault doesn't happen on the public transport he regularly uses.

In the real world, a local six form researched the experiences of girls traveling to school on public transport and campaigned for occasional, pop in, PCSO presence.

"Your post was quite vulgar. Was it intentional?"

Not lady-like enough for you?

"My husband's body has never been touched without his consent."

This is so important. I don't think there's a woman in the world who could say that.

Yes. You cannot expect to be given extra pay for less work because you choose to have a baby. Because you can do it but men can't doesn't give you extra points on the pay scale.

Missing the point there.
Which was that women should still receive full pay (not from employer) when having children.
And that they miss out because they are contributing to society. Why should men benefit from the fact that they can't have children? Why can't we find ways to make the field level?
Just the refusal to acknowledge this as an issue is why we need feminism.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but the pay gap is more often occupational.
The idea that we have equal pay for men and women is misleading.
Only 22% of University Professors in the UK are women, 9% of CEOs are women, and this trend is seen throughout most industries and organisations.
Women populate low paid jobs.

My OH works for a young vibrant seemingly forward thinking company.
There are 29 people in the company, 17 ( like him) work as IT engineers.

There are four women work in the company, one cleaner, one in accounts and 2 admin.

I too have worked in similar arenas, once being the only woman in a department of 48 men.

Why can't we find ways to make the field level?

Because medicine and biology aren't there yet. Having children is a choice and one you should make knowing that you can support them financially in the future. If you can't then you decide not to have children.

Which was that women should still receive full pay (not from employer) when having children.

Believing things like this is why feminism is broken.

There are shining examples on this thread of why feminism is something fewer and fewer people wish to be associated with. I'm still reeling a bit from 'political lesbianism' and 'every woman is oppressed by their husband'. The full on crazies have made feminism a bad thing (it isn't a patriarchal conspiracy). If feminism were a company, you'd have consultants in recommending a rebranding and dissociation from its current form.

@skerrywind - why? Is it because they want to have babies? Until prime-motherhood age, women dominate graduate jobs.

As a male of six foot four my dh has unquestioningly adopted the habit of crossing the road when he finds himself walking behind a lone woman at night. I'm sure he'd be touched by your concern, STFU, but he's really fine with it.
But then he has spent a large part of his career dealing with the legal consequences of rape and domestic violence, so he's kind of had to learn about the real problems the hard way.

Because medicine and biology aren't there yet

We don't need medicine to level the field for the 50% of society who have to shoulder the burden of ensuring there's a next generation with their own bodies.

Having children is a choice and one you should make knowing that you can support them financially in the future. If you can't then you decide not to have children.

Having children is an imperative for society. Look it up.
Imagine if all women decide not to have children, because they lose out financially and it ruins their bodies and put their lives at risk. What do you propose? What do you tell women, and men then?

Until prime-motherhood age, women dominate graduate jobs.

And then that workforce loses out or is removed from work.

But men also decide to have children and they don't lose out.

See the problem there?