'There is no need for feminism in first world countries because females are no longer oppressed...'

[TinyRick]

And apparently we have 'more rights than men now'.

One example of many - www.debate.org/opinions/women-are-not-oppressed-in-first-world-countries

I was going to post this on the Feminism boards but I have heard this from females too so thought I would post here to see views from those who do think this and agree with it.

I'm on a social media site and this comes up quite often. Yes, quite presumably from young males but I have also read about the 'Red Pill' and the 'MGTOW' movements which are mostly populated by the older males.

Aibu to think that Feminism in the first world is still needed and as relevant as ever? And amongst our 'luxuries' we are still the oppressed class?

batshit crazy

Fair enough

full on crazies

yes

She headed into crazy-land for a while

No. Accurate.

If feminism were a company, you'd have consultants in recommending a rebranding and dissociation from its current form.

Definitely not sneering. An opinion politely written.

Look it up.

Actually, that was a poster above me. I was quoting them in my reply. Looks like I've been on the end of some sneers too.

Luckily, the ones that were out in January tended to be the ones who would protest the opening of a Starbucks if told to by SJWs

Not sneering

you and your boring, fucking one-sided, unintellectual and vacuous attempts putting down anyone who isn't on your highly-debatable 'side'

The person to whom I directed that had their post removed (and it wasn't me who reported it).

I didn't post as I don't like to argue with someone who has such a personal response but, in theory, they were all complete shit.

No. That was condescending.

Feminism is dying out (thank god) and those clinging on, as is always the case, are fanatics.

This isn't sneering, it's all of my posts summarised as well as popular opinion too.
---------
I have been deliberately rude once (again, their post was removed, not mine). I have been frequently called a troll, an MRA, a man, a rape apologist, the reason we need feminism and the reason women who are abused are not believed.

All in all, I'd say i've been remarkably polite in the face of those insults.

I'm in the minority on this thread but not in real life. The majority of women and men agree with me.

My point was that you may have a very equal partnership with your husband and see no discrimination in your life - hooray! Genuinely pleased for you and glad there are some cases where things are more equal. However national stats (not just opinions or anecdotes on this thread) show that this is not the case for the majority of women.

Just because things are good for you does not mean there is no need for feminism.

@pooch

She's an alcoholic, extreme feminist called Jenny McDermott. Easy pickings for anyone to use as an example of crazy feminism of course.

She started the hashtag #kill all men.

PoochSmooch I think thats Jenny Kiss. Jenny seems to post an interesting mixture of arguments and opinions coff coff.

''Published on Mar 25, 2017 I honestly did not want to make a response to Riley because she is a good person here on youtube, but I need to be a voice sometimes.''

Guides / scouts. Yes, I understand the reasons scouts became unisex but think that many of the benefits of a female only space are applicable to boys too, but the boy spaces are pretty much non-existent. The sports teams thread was very much in favour of girls only to get girls into football in a female space and then mixed so they weren't held back while they progressed with a real 'who cares about the boys, they can suck it up' tone.

I think your problem here is assuming that there is a panel of feminists who agree the feminist position on the Brownies or anything else. You are talking about people discussing an issue on mumsnet, not an item of faith in a political movement.

'Feminist' describes a huge range of people with very diverse views.

STFU- do you genuinely think Jenny Kiss represents the views of the feminists on this thread?

Not sure I can answer that without being told I'm sneering.

Yes, some like the idea of #killallmen but would no doubt not actually go through with it. One poster (who is sure I am a man) has followed me around MN threads suggesting I'm sockpuppeting on other threads and directing people here and making my non-feminist views known on unrelated threads. They do seem a little unhinged.

The lady who said that every woman is oppressed by her male partner (and stood by that) had obviously had very upsetting experiences but the every part (and defending it) does seem to be of the ilk of the woman in that video. The poster explicitly said she doesn't hate all men, but the "every" type thinking is extreme.

I think anyone who has suggested I'm a man feels real disdain for men and show their thinking that "all women are feminists and if you don't like feminism you must be a man".

I don't think that she represents the majority, but I think feminism as a movement is closer to her opinions than the 'equality of the sexes' it pretends to be.

itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/50-things-that-made-the-modern-economy/id1172889381?mt=2&i=1000384150292

This podcast on the pill in the '50 things that made the modern economy' series summarises the difference the pill made to women entering the professions.

Women who were 18 when the pill became widely available (in particular to single people) are only going to be entering their 60's now - that's about the same age as Tony Blair.

Of course the reason there aren't many women in senior positions in politics and business isn't just that they all feel so maternal.

Yes, some like the idea of #killallmen but would no doubt not actually go through with it.

You seriously think that? Even 'some' would be stretching it. Most women on here have husbands, fathers, brothers and/or sons who they would not want dead.

@jelly

By 'idea', I meant the rhetoric behind it, not actual murder.

Your argument was as flawed as a misogynists "I can't hate women, I love my mother" though.

I don't think my opinions are extreme STFU, I'm basing my opinion on a lifetime of experience, not just mine obviously, I'm heading for 60 but I've worked since I was 18 in the NHS and I'm going on observation and the experience of others too. Obviously I don't go about voicing any of my opinions at work, that would be horrendous but I do listen.
What else is marriage except the swapping of commodities for sex, a kind of prostitution.
If I could live like the mosuo tribe I'd be happy with that.

What else is marriage except the swapping of commodities for sex, a kind of prostitution.

Spending your life with someone you love?

By extension, all married women are prostitutes. That sounds fairly extreme even for this thread.

Nope, never heard of her, never heard of the hashtag, never heard any feminist seriously suggest anything like what she's on about. It's bonkers to use that example as an argument for why feminism has lost its way - like using some nutbar on the extreme wing of the revolutionary communist party to protest against Labour policies.

You're lots of fun, and I'll grant you've got good staying power, but I think this has run its course for me.

STFU- I am still not clear what rights
men lack that you think need advocating for. What would you like to see changed?
And please can you stop saying people are saying you are a man because you disagree with them. Someone suggests that you were a man because you use language and arguments that are typical of those used by men who post on the feminist boards. Personally I don't care whether you are a man or a woman. Both sexes can be wrongheaded.

And both sexes can exhibit misogyny sadly.

I suspect, STFU, that you would be outraged if i posted a link to the rape threats women who speak out on Twitter often receive and suggested they were typical of MRA. Even the extreme end of MRA.

I was pretty smug myself about marriage and relationships until my 2nd husband on the approach to our 15th wedding anniversary dumped me without ANY warning when I thought we were really happy and married for life when I was seriously ill and about to have a major operation, was being investigated for cancer, without any money, any warning, leaving me in the most appalling situation just so that he could go off and have a care free life without having to look after a sick person who could no longer have sex or pay for his lifestyle.
On the day I was due to go into hospital, an event I was dreading especially as I was now alone, I got a divorce petition citing my unreasonable behaviour i.e not being all sweetness and light any more, and demanding half my home into which he has not paid a penny either in mortgage or bills in 21 years.
You can hardly blame me for being sour right now but when I look back it's been a familiar story - blokes can be pretty fair weather especially when it comes to sex.
All the time you think you are in a happy relationship you are blind to the sufferings of others and fail to understand what happens out there. Like I used to be but I've had my eyes opened alright.

We always need feminism, the statement would have had slightly more empathy if it had suggested some other countries need more/enforceable feminism.

I too will fully admit that I wondered what all the fuss was about as a teen/early twenties.
Radfems were on a par with Millie Tant from the Viz and hated men.

Then I grew up, had daughters, became fucking horrified at the attitudes that even the most 'normal' of people have towards abhorrent behaviour directed at women.
In this 'enlightened' ha society, we need it more than ever.
IWD was heartening to see so many people coming out and believing in their sex.

On loads of threads i have read lots of women/men post about sexism, etc

Whenever the threads are quoted later its always as 'feminists on another thread said...'

Even though most of those people did not say they were feminists, do not post Regularly in the feminist forum and sometimes have categorically said that they are NOT feminists

Keeps happening, so unless that poster has said they are a feminist i would be careful of quoting feminists onhere

Happens a lot with trans threads for example

It's a funny subject as I thought I was a feminist, then I added some people and their views were crazy compared to mine. I believe in equality for all so I don't think anyone should be pigeon holed.

It was around the time people were having plaits in their hair, I discovered this whole cultural appropriation thing, that I didn't realise existed. Plus that woman who claimed to be black and wasn't.

Women still get treated different in the work place, I believe a pay gap exists, opportunities are few and far between. Being a female in a male dominated industry is still considered quirky.

I guess we have it easier compared to women in different countries, but in those countries stereotypes aren't the same. These are the same countries that have better parenting laws, better education, better overall happiness. At the same time you have I guess what you'd call third world countries. I must admit I can't claim to know all that much, again it's down to stereotyping. So due to ignorance / lack of education, you could say women in Muslim countries are worse off, but maybe they don't mind. So I can't really comment.

In today's society there is a lot to worry about, not just feminism.

I totally agree. Women have far too much power, they think can do what they want and that they know best. How dare they! They are so blind to their privilege most of them don't even realise they have it.

That's why my husband was infuriated when the Western Association for Male Reproductive Rights signed an executive order stating that reversible sterilisation programmes are going to be suggested as an educational tool in sex education for boys.

I see this thread has drifted into a fictional world where all mothers are in supportive marriages.

I totally agree. Women have far too much power, they think can do what they want and that they know best. How dare they! They are so blind to their privilege most of them don't even realise they have it.That's why my husband was infuriated when the Western Association for Male Reproductive Rights signed an executive order stating that reversible sterilisation programmes are going to be suggested as an educational tool in sex education for boys.

Where do you live? Because I think I would like to spend a vacation there. Seems like a lovely parallel universe.

(Yes, I understand you are being sarcastic. I am playing along.)

And where does all this knowledge about the situation of women in "other countries" come from?

I find the UK very smug about how life is always harder in "other countries". All I know about countries outside of the ones I've lived in is what I read in the newspapers or online and I'll tell you mumsnet gives me the impression that the situation for women living in the UK is pretty dire.

"@Cory - but they were a minority group: that's why you were having the discussion, so that they could become an equal group."

How can "minority" ever have been the appropriate word for a category that forms more than half the population??? What you mean is "an oppressed group". So it makes sense to use that word instead.

The reason for using the inaccurate word "minority" is that it insidiously suggests that in some sense women are a smaller, less important group, that they don't require as many resources or as much representation. Most people still have enough of an awareness of the actual etymological meaning of minority to be influenced by it if even subconsciously. Language matters.