to make a polite request about infertility threads

[lavenderandrose]

I know, it's naughty, it's sort of a TAAT but it's really AT about a lot of Ts. MNHQ, if I really am out of line I apologise unreservedly and will accept the thread being taken down, but it really is intended in a very genuine spirit.

I am not asking anybody to change their mind about their stance or belief on IVF funding, abortion, adoption or ethics of donor conception. Please continue to discuss as passionately as before.

But, please, please, can I explain a little bit about the 'childless people should foster / they should adopt because there are so many children needing homes' and why they are irrelevant and also potentially distressing to read.

Firstly, foster carers are marvellous. Without them, children would not be living in family homes at all but in children's homes. In a children's home, privacy can be difficult, children can feel unsettled and anxious at being in close proximity to many others especially those significantly older/with very challenging behaviour and also can become institutionalised which can make their lives as adults very difficult. To grow up with foster parents in a family home, with 'ordinary" rules and, in the best cases, having a stable childhood, is the best and these people who offer that are, put simply, amazing.

But it isn't enough to be amazing. You need to have one adult who does not work outside of the home. This is because you will be required to attend meetings and to be available should the child need you. This is not like being a normal mum to an average twelve year old, say. This telegraph article is pessimistic but also more realistic than some of the rosy glasses on here.

The final point with fostering - it isn't your child. No matter how attached you get to him or her, and they to you, you are not their parent. For someone longing for their own child, fostering is not the answer. In some ways, it's like suggesting to a single person they take your husband out for a date. OK, that's a bit of a stupid example but nonetheless fostering is not what most people think of when desperate for their own child.

Adoption is slightly different because legally and in every other sense, the child becomes 'yours.' But it isn't for everyone, and more pertinently, everyone isn't for it.

You may have seen billboard posters in your town inviting you to adopt. They imply that it doesn't take much. You just need to be a loving person - single, gay, old, young, black, white - are all unimportant. I can understand how they make people think it's possibly as easy as attending a few courses, coming home with a cute toddler and that's all great. You get your longed for child, the child gets Mummy and Daddy. What could possibly go wrong?

The problem is, not everyone who applies for adoption is approved. Like being a foster carer, you need at least a spare bedroom. You also need a verifiable support network. That proved impossible for us: so out of the running. If you have a pond, fill it in. If you smoke, this severely impedes your chances even if you have given up. (This is not me!) Things that thousands of birth parents manage to be fine with: dogs, cramped house, full time demanding jobs, high BMIs, vegan, can be enough to lose you a child. (Please note adoptive parents - 'can be' - I know many will have adopted with one or more of these things but I am just trying to illustrate they can go against you.)

But let's say you are approved. Brilliant! You can take your new son or daughter home now. But no - you have to wait to be matched. You may go through the heartbreak of a match falling through. The wait is endless. But then you finally get your son or daughter. It's a deliriously happy time, but it's also for many adoptive parents a sad one. Many will notice how few the congratulations are, how little cards adorn the mantelpiece, than with a new baby.

As the years go on you may find your child is perfect in every way, or you may find that their behaviour is a challenge. Around between 10 and 16% of adoptions break down altogether. many more limp on, adoring their child but with hurt and pain on both sides.

Please, please, don't think I'm saying anything negative about adopted children or parents. I would never do that. But it's not for everyone.

For a baby, I need IVF. It will be self funded. I understand fully why the NHS cannot pay for that. I respect your view whatever it is.

But please do not assume you can cure me and tell me that if I really wanted a child I could find thousands upon thousands of pounds, or foster, or adopt.

I work with children. For years now I have had people earnestly tell me what a wonderful mother I would be and why don't I have one. I don't mind that. Occasionally, I will need to have a difficult conversation with somebody and they will tell me I don't even have children and therefore I know nothing about nothing.

I am accepting that having children may not be possible. I will be very upset. But I can reach acceptance.

But please, don't imply this is my fault.

Again, sorry if the post doesn't come across the way I intended it to. I'm just asking people gently to not put forward fostering or adoption as cure alls.

I find "adopted a puppy" OK, as it's a permanent arrangement, where that dog is now a family member.

One of the petting zoos around here has "adopt one of our animals". That I do object to, as the animal stays there, and does not become a permanent member of the adopting family, and even one animal can be " adopted" by many families. To a confused small person trying to work out what " being adopted" means, it can undermine their stability. Sponsor is much better in this context. These are children that have often been failed and damaged by society, and small changes to our language can help. Why wouldn't anyone do anything they can, and be willing to save "adoption" for its proper context?

So sorry op as haven't time to read the whole thread but I had to
Post to completely support your opening post.

We are lucky enough to have kids and I can't understand anyone not seeing your point of view. I wish you all the best of luck

I think words are tremendously powerful.

To say "I want one of my own" is to suggest that adopted children are not their parents own. However innocuous your meaning you have to accept that if it offends someone else (or can upset small children as is repeatedly documented) you need to rethink your vocabulary.
It's like the bad old days of people talking about the "p* shop" and being genuinely mystified why anyone would find it offensive - because that wasn't their meaning.
It's something i have to police in myself ie not just nodding when nice people ask if my elder child is "my own" but gently correcting this to "he's a birthchild, yes"

Hugs to you and wishing you all the luck in the world with your journey.

I couldn't agree more with your post.

I've had a long journey trying to conceive, failing to conceive. Invasive investigations, fertility treatments, more failures, more heartbreak.

Discovering I had PCOS, followed by adenomyosis, fibroids, chronic endometritis - years of pain, of excessive bleeding and yet more heartbreak.

Trying to adopt and after a lengthy assessment period being rejected for a minor mental health issue.

Finally reaching the decision at 34 to take the offered hysterectomy and move on, coming to terms with how my life will be and still being told by well meaning people who only know a fraction of what we've been through that we should foster/ employ a surrogate/ try adoption again or grow a baby on a bush!

None of this was my fault, I didn't ask for any of it. Please stop telling me how to 'fix' it

Stop, just stop.

I am getting really pissed off at this thread now too. There was nothing wrong with what Sukey wrote, and nothing wrong with what I wrote. Those of you dictating language have absolutely no right at all, whether you have adopted or not. And i speak as one of those poor children who would have languished in care if I had not been adopted. Cut it out.

And as for the "adoption is relevant", well, it might be relevant if these posters were saying "i want to be a parent" but they are not, they are saying "i want to conceive". They have absolutely the right to say that in any way they want.

Beautifully put. I wish you all the luck in the world on your IVF journey

Exactly.
No one should ever tell others to 'foster or adopt' - these are not options! Our council wouldnt even send us an adoption info pack because dh and i are both white and they 'werent accepting applications from white couples'. So how could we adopt, despite what we feel are so many positives we have to offer. Good luck to everyone in op's (and our) situation.

If I were talking to someone who had adopted and the children were there I would certainly not make references to the children being their own or not their own, because in my experience every adoption family sees these issues differently, ie that is a different context. I don't think we should need to tread on eggshells when talking about our experiences online, in this context. If people think that I am being unreasonable or insensitive I am happy to listen though.

But how do you know if a family you are talking to have adopted or not? It may not be common knowledge.

The point is, to adoptive parents (and a lot of their children), the term 'own children', when used to refer to biological children, is offensive and yet it is part of our language in a way that terms like 'n**r' used to be. Some black oeople find that term offensive. Some don't. But gradually, it's become more and more socially unacceptable. So, regardless of whether you, in particular, are offended by it, a significant number of people are, and so the language will be challenged, even if it's noticed as part of an online discussion.

Thank you, thank you, OP

I'm totally memorising your words for when someone clumsily asks (again) if I've considered adoption or helpfully suggests why don't we 'just' adopt

And why I have to explain that there is no 'just' about pursuing surrogacy, which is now the only way we are going to be able to have a baby. Because my uterus isn't up to the job - so the only way we can turn one of our frozen embryos into a person is to transfer into someone else's

I have to explain that surrogacy agreements aren't legally enforceable in the UK and so one has to trust a stranger with the most precious gift in the world, and hope that you will be granted a parental order by the courts to be the legal parents of your own genetic child. And because commercial surrogacy is illegal in the UK, the chances of getting a match with a woman willing to carry your baby for just expenses, are vanishingly small

So after £40,000, 4 IVF cycles, 2 pregnancies, 2 miscarriages, 3 surgeries and endless rounds of treatment to try and fix my broken womb, we have to sell our house to find the £100,000+ that pursuing surrogacy in the US costs

There is no 'just' involved in this whole hideous, heartbreaking process, that destroys every fibre of my being. It's hard enough without having to deal with the throwaway suggestions from others

Good luck with your treatment

I know several families, one went through all the fertility stuff then adopted. I could say more but it could be outing. I also know a foster Mum and it's very hands on, from what I can tell whilst you may love that child with all your heart, do everything you can, it's not up to the foster family if they get to keep the child. Some children are really affected by having so many different homes, even I as a Mum have a heart for foster children as they genuinely have a shit time. I can't begin to imagine how that feels as a foster parent. Both instances adoption & fostering, it's pretty thankless, you can dedicate your life you a child from a young age, but who's to say upon turning 18, the curiosity of their real parents burns to the bone, they connect and possibly leave you forever.

It takes a very special person to put themselves in that situation.