to make a polite request about infertility threads

[lavenderandrose]

I know, it's naughty, it's sort of a TAAT but it's really AT about a lot of Ts. MNHQ, if I really am out of line I apologise unreservedly and will accept the thread being taken down, but it really is intended in a very genuine spirit.

I am not asking anybody to change their mind about their stance or belief on IVF funding, abortion, adoption or ethics of donor conception. Please continue to discuss as passionately as before.

But, please, please, can I explain a little bit about the 'childless people should foster / they should adopt because there are so many children needing homes' and why they are irrelevant and also potentially distressing to read.

Firstly, foster carers are marvellous. Without them, children would not be living in family homes at all but in children's homes. In a children's home, privacy can be difficult, children can feel unsettled and anxious at being in close proximity to many others especially those significantly older/with very challenging behaviour and also can become institutionalised which can make their lives as adults very difficult. To grow up with foster parents in a family home, with 'ordinary" rules and, in the best cases, having a stable childhood, is the best and these people who offer that are, put simply, amazing.

But it isn't enough to be amazing. You need to have one adult who does not work outside of the home. This is because you will be required to attend meetings and to be available should the child need you. This is not like being a normal mum to an average twelve year old, say. This telegraph article is pessimistic but also more realistic than some of the rosy glasses on here.

The final point with fostering - it isn't your child. No matter how attached you get to him or her, and they to you, you are not their parent. For someone longing for their own child, fostering is not the answer. In some ways, it's like suggesting to a single person they take your husband out for a date. OK, that's a bit of a stupid example but nonetheless fostering is not what most people think of when desperate for their own child.

Adoption is slightly different because legally and in every other sense, the child becomes 'yours.' But it isn't for everyone, and more pertinently, everyone isn't for it.

You may have seen billboard posters in your town inviting you to adopt. They imply that it doesn't take much. You just need to be a loving person - single, gay, old, young, black, white - are all unimportant. I can understand how they make people think it's possibly as easy as attending a few courses, coming home with a cute toddler and that's all great. You get your longed for child, the child gets Mummy and Daddy. What could possibly go wrong?

The problem is, not everyone who applies for adoption is approved. Like being a foster carer, you need at least a spare bedroom. You also need a verifiable support network. That proved impossible for us: so out of the running. If you have a pond, fill it in. If you smoke, this severely impedes your chances even if you have given up. (This is not me!) Things that thousands of birth parents manage to be fine with: dogs, cramped house, full time demanding jobs, high BMIs, vegan, can be enough to lose you a child. (Please note adoptive parents - 'can be' - I know many will have adopted with one or more of these things but I am just trying to illustrate they can go against you.)

But let's say you are approved. Brilliant! You can take your new son or daughter home now. But no - you have to wait to be matched. You may go through the heartbreak of a match falling through. The wait is endless. But then you finally get your son or daughter. It's a deliriously happy time, but it's also for many adoptive parents a sad one. Many will notice how few the congratulations are, how little cards adorn the mantelpiece, than with a new baby.

As the years go on you may find your child is perfect in every way, or you may find that their behaviour is a challenge. Around between 10 and 16% of adoptions break down altogether. many more limp on, adoring their child but with hurt and pain on both sides.

Please, please, don't think I'm saying anything negative about adopted children or parents. I would never do that. But it's not for everyone.

For a baby, I need IVF. It will be self funded. I understand fully why the NHS cannot pay for that. I respect your view whatever it is.

But please do not assume you can cure me and tell me that if I really wanted a child I could find thousands upon thousands of pounds, or foster, or adopt.

I work with children. For years now I have had people earnestly tell me what a wonderful mother I would be and why don't I have one. I don't mind that. Occasionally, I will need to have a difficult conversation with somebody and they will tell me I don't even have children and therefore I know nothing about nothing.

I am accepting that having children may not be possible. I will be very upset. But I can reach acceptance.

But please, don't imply this is my fault.

Again, sorry if the post doesn't come across the way I intended it to. I'm just asking people gently to not put forward fostering or adoption as cure alls.

You are so right OP. I do think it's very notable that it's rarely the people who have done it who suggest it.

I have both self-funded IVF and adopted. The IVF was a year of disappointment and a LOT of money down the drain, and the adoption process was gruelling. Much as I love my DC (and I do adore them) they both have problems that simply wouldn't have if they were my birth children. I knew it before they came to us, and we have been dealing with the issues as we go along as best we can, and I wouldn't change them for anything, but it's not necessarily for everyone.

Thank you for your post, OP. We are also having problem with infertility and it is utterly heartbreaking. I've never cried so much like when my second round failed. Those who have children with no problem will never understand. Best of luck for your journey, OP.

Crusoe, just start a thread about belly buttons and you'll be stripped of any claims to sainthood I know what you mean, though. Not the same thing but when I worked in special needs i would sometimes get people being quite insistent I was an angel and I used to think 'hardly - I'm the lucky one!' (I was, too, it was one of the funniest, most bonkers and sweetest jobs I've ever had)

Tim and Carrie

Excellent post. I would just add another gripe; the piss poor post adoptive care that new adoptive parents and adopted children recieve. I'm a head of year and I've had a number of cases over the years where an adoptive parent or family are doing a great job with their muched loved child when they run into difficulties bought on my the trauma the children have faced in their early years. There isn't enough help out there for adoptive families especially those children who have had a rocky start. Sadly, love isn't enough to fix everything. Support services are badly needed.

Your post brought tears to my eyes, Lavenderandrose - you articulated so well elements of what I've been thinking and feeling too

OP I fully support you and your post. Th and I tried for years to have a biological child. When it came to ivf being the I my option I turned that down as I wasn't strong enough to deal with it. The intrusive proceedures, the waiting and the heart ache that I've seen in friends I couldn't do myself. We chose adoption and have two amazing boys. Yes it's hard work. Yes I'm always on my toes with it and yes it can be a lonely path to tread, even with supportive families and friends.
Familes come in all shapes and sizes and none are easier or better than others. We need to stop offering glib advice and asking stupid questions and just accept some take a different path.

What an articulate post.
Best of luck with the IVF

Amen to that, OP. Well said.

Adopting is great, I've done it, but "have you thought about adopting?" Should be "I know you've said you want a child by the usual way, who is securely attached, and genetically yours, but here I will guilt trip you into justifying why you don't want to parent a traumatised child, and not only not get the family you've dreamed of, but have a completely different life of difficulties." It's totally out of order to suggest adopting to someone longing for a birth child, as adopting is not having a birth child. It's a valid and wonderful way to become a parent. But it isn't having a birth child. It's not fair on the parents or the child to perpetuate the myth that adopting is easy, always sucessful, or anything like having a birth child.

Great post.
There is nothing 'just' about IVF or adopting (I've done both).
And fostering is a very different kettle of fish.

So eloquently said- thank you so much for 'verbalising' how so many people who have suffered with infertility actually feel. I'm one of the lucky ones for whom IVF worked- sending my very best wishes to everyone going through it at the moment, it who is contemplating it.

OP. Hi 👋 there! We struggled for close to 10 years to concieve. During the time we went through the adoption process, and for a couple of reasons we were told that it wasn't the right time for us to adopt. The social worker thought we would make excellent parents of our own baby, but at that time they were not looking for parents for babies, but for parents for older children with complex needs that they didn't think we were at the right stage to deal with. Through the process it became clear to me how much more adoption is than just getting a lovely wee baby. It often goes wrong and that is devastating for the families involved. So "just adopt" is not a simple solution for childlessness. Wish you all the best in starting a family x

I admit that I haven't rtft but OP I absolutely agree with you 100%. We have our ds through ivf and looked into adoption for a second child. It's a nightmare and we walked away from adoption enquiries as we just couldn't put our family, and ds in particular, through the process of us trying to adopt.
Good luck with your ivf xx

Yes, people don't always know that adoption these days is not a baby supply service. Nor is love a cure all.

Its a service to find the right families for traumatised children, and it takes a lot more than a normal loving home to heal that trauma.

It's a rewarding but challenging thing to do. It's not the 1950s any more.

Brilliantly put! Thank you for such a beautifully concise and eloquent post on something so important and often misunderstood.

I was adopted by a couple who could not have their own child, and I would go further to say that more thought needs to be given to the affect on a child in that situation, where the parents have not recovered from the loss of not having their own child.

OP, best of luck re fertility and to everyone else trying too! Maybe the threads should be filled up with stories from people about what worked for them, from the conventional to the bonkers - would that be helpful or not helpful? And anyone who mentions fostering or adoption will be very politely told that it is not allowed on fertility threads!

Having been on the journey to parenthood for a very long time, I can fully empathise and agree with your post. Very well put. Having had IVF fail and also been turned down for Foster to Adopt (due to my disability) I have extensive experience of the "you can always adopt" consolation prize being trotted out by those who know nothing about the process and needs of these children. I'm also lucky enough to have DS via IVF and can fully appreciate the fragile nature of conception. Still can't bare it coming down to luck.

Good luck OP

Well said OP. 2nd round of ivf successful here but have heard this said many times .Asked as a general thoughtless comment really. DH was completely against adoption . I however would have done literally anything.

Great post. Best of luck with IVF, if you feel like sharing or a have any questons pop over to the Infertility board, it was invaluable to me when going through IVF 3 times (am now 22 weeks pg with a baby boy after much heartbreak and money).

I agree that those saying "just adopt" have no idea what they're on about. DH and I discussed it, but decided we'd rather be childless in the end. There's just too little support available to adopters, and agencies often lie about the extent of the problems a child has in order to get them adopted faster. These days, with easy access to abortion, there are almost no children available who haven't been abused, exposed to things they shouldn't have been, or otherwise mistreated (often in utero). We felt we didn't have the strength to cope with a child with extensive problems who wasn't ours biologically.

I also agree re fostering - I know a couple who tried fostering for adoption, who were utterly devastated when the baby they'd come to think of as theirs was taken away.

YANBU

Totally agree. Adoption shouldn't be a consolation prize, it should be an experience all of it's own. My friend works in adoption and I know I couldn't make the sacrifices needed even to pass the initial checks let alone bring up an adopted child.

Hope the IVF goes well

I'd like to add that I have a DS conceived through a frozen cycle of ivf when our first round failed. It took us two and a half years to conceive. It was a miserable journey, devastating, heartbreaking. No one can understand the feeling unless you've been through it, lived it every day.

I honestly would've committed suicide if I couldn't have a child. Many many times I wanted to throw myself down the stairs to release the pain I felt inside. I felt so desperate and helpless.

I have just tried - and failed - a further 2 rounds of ivf to try and have a sibling. I don't know how people have sex and just get pregnant. It is a total mystery to me.

The biggest luck and to everyone walking this path and taking this journey. It is NOT easy.

This is one of the best posts I have seen on MN in the 4 years I've been here.

8 year journey for us - MC#1 on my birthday. MC#3 on Xmas Eve.

2 failed IVF cycles

1 failed ICSI cycle

1 successful ICSI cycle - WOW DD, you're really here!

DD was 1.5 and we fell pregnant naturally. WOW again.

Lost DC at 14 -16 weeks. Obviously I delivered. I can't explain the trauma and the heartbreak. My DM died along the way too (DDad had already died, great idea to keep smoking those fags, DDad).

Kind hearted but totally misguided friends who fell pregnant naturally and just didn't get it had NO IDEA how fucking off they were when they said the why-not-adopt chat, like you could go and buy a baby in Tesco.

Of all my Mat Leave friends

Me - and my drama
C - needed donor egg due to teenage cancer
A - donor egg due to poor egg quality
G - donor sperm (SS relationship)
E - early miscarriage then successful pregnancies x 2
S - fell pregnant naturally very easily.

So, out of my 6 closest friends, only one had an "easy start"

We should all assume people have a difficult journey, rather than an easy one and be much less presumptuous about people's lives.

Rant over.

Thank you OP flowers

I totally agree with you OP. I think those 'why dont you just adopt?' comments are awful.