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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to make a polite request about infertility threads

159 replies

lavenderandrose · 03/04/2017 18:28

I know, it's naughty, it's sort of a TAAT but it's really AT about a lot of Ts. Blush MNHQ, if I really am out of line I apologise unreservedly and will accept the thread being taken down, but it really is intended in a very genuine spirit.

I am not asking anybody to change their mind about their stance or belief on IVF funding, abortion, adoption or ethics of donor conception. Please continue to discuss as passionately as before.

But, please, please, can I explain a little bit about the 'childless people should foster / they should adopt because there are so many children needing homes' and why they are irrelevant and also potentially distressing to read.

Firstly, foster carers are marvellous. Without them, children would not be living in family homes at all but in children's homes. In a children's home, privacy can be difficult, children can feel unsettled and anxious at being in close proximity to many others especially those significantly older/with very challenging behaviour and also can become institutionalised which can make their lives as adults very difficult. To grow up with foster parents in a family home, with 'ordinary" rules and, in the best cases, having a stable childhood, is the best and these people who offer that are, put simply, amazing.

But it isn't enough to be amazing. You need to have one adult who does not work outside of the home. This is because you will be required to attend meetings and to be available should the child need you. This is not like being a normal mum to an average twelve year old, say. This telegraph article is pessimistic but also more realistic than some of the rosy glasses on here.

The final point with fostering - it isn't your child. No matter how attached you get to him or her, and they to you, you are not their parent. For someone longing for their own child, fostering is not the answer. In some ways, it's like suggesting to a single person they take your husband out for a date. OK, that's a bit of a stupid example but nonetheless fostering is not what most people think of when desperate for their own child.

Adoption is slightly different because legally and in every other sense, the child becomes 'yours.' But it isn't for everyone, and more pertinently, everyone isn't for it.

You may have seen billboard posters in your town inviting you to adopt. They imply that it doesn't take much. You just need to be a loving person - single, gay, old, young, black, white - are all unimportant. I can understand how they make people think it's possibly as easy as attending a few courses, coming home with a cute toddler and that's all great. You get your longed for child, the child gets Mummy and Daddy. What could possibly go wrong?

The problem is, not everyone who applies for adoption is approved. Like being a foster carer, you need at least a spare bedroom. You also need a verifiable support network. That proved impossible for us: so out of the running. If you have a pond, fill it in. If you smoke, this severely impedes your chances even if you have given up. (This is not me!) Things that thousands of birth parents manage to be fine with: dogs, cramped house, full time demanding jobs, high BMIs, vegan, can be enough to lose you a child. (Please note adoptive parents - 'can be' - I know many will have adopted with one or more of these things but I am just trying to illustrate they can go against you.)

But let's say you are approved. Brilliant! You can take your new son or daughter home now. But no - you have to wait to be matched. You may go through the heartbreak of a match falling through. The wait is endless. But then you finally get your son or daughter. It's a deliriously happy time, but it's also for many adoptive parents a sad one. Many will notice how few the congratulations are, how little cards adorn the mantelpiece, than with a new baby.

As the years go on you may find your child is perfect in every way, or you may find that their behaviour is a challenge. Around between 10 and 16% of adoptions break down altogether. many more limp on, adoring their child but with hurt and pain on both sides.

Please, please, don't think I'm saying anything negative about adopted children or parents. I would never do that. But it's not for everyone.

For a baby, I need IVF. It will be self funded. I understand fully why the NHS cannot pay for that. I respect your view whatever it is.

But please do not assume you can cure me and tell me that if I really wanted a child I could find thousands upon thousands of pounds, or foster, or adopt.

I work with children. For years now I have had people earnestly tell me what a wonderful mother I would be and why don't I have one. I don't mind that. Occasionally, I will need to have a difficult conversation with somebody and they will tell me I don't even have children and therefore I know nothing about nothing.

I am accepting that having children may not be possible. I will be very upset. But I can reach acceptance.

But please, don't imply this is my fault.

Again, sorry if the post doesn't come across the way I intended it to. I'm just asking people gently to not put forward fostering or adoption as cure alls.

OP posts:
BeBeatrix · 03/04/2017 19:56

So well put. Thank you for posting this.

fangbanger66 · 03/04/2017 19:58

Beautifully put OP. I wish you every success in your journey.

Could I also make a suggestion when talking on infertility threads?

That posters take into consideration of other peoples feelings when expressing their opposing views.
I don't think this has took place this evening on MN. Everyone has their own opinion on IVF funding etc but no matter what your opinion is on the matter, remember there is a woman out there, on here posting who desperately wants a child and can't have one. Words can not begin to describe how devastating it is and how it impacts every aspect of our lives.

So If you don't think people should get IVF free that's fine, but don't tell us to adopt, foster and make out were scrounging off the state for wanting to save ourselves thousands of pounds to have a child (we'll be needing the money if IVF actually works and a got baby to feed and clotheWink) Don't tell us its not life threatening, we know. Yes there's other areas funding needs but to someone who wants a baby and can't, we don't care. We want what our friends have, family's, colleagues have so easily, all we want is to be a mummy.

Don't tell us its not an illness, its patronising. We've got enough on our plates.

Thank you SmileFlowers

feebeecat · 03/04/2017 20:00

Well said. We had one round of ivf and were incredibly lucky to be successful. If we hadn't have been I doubt the adoption agencies would have looked at us for some of the reasons you listed. It's bandied about as such a simple solution.
Very best of luck, I hope it all works out for you Flowers

Clickncollect · 03/04/2017 20:00

A fabulous and articulate post. I have an IVF baby after much heartache and so much of what you said resonated with me.
Best of luck with your treatment

namechangingagainagain · 03/04/2017 20:01

What a great post.

I think although it is insensitive to suggest adoption it sometimes comes from a place of love.
My sister has now been through numerous early and late miscarriages and 2 unsuccessful rounds of IVF. It really does break my heart to watch her go through it..... it is SO UNFAIR and I know she would be a great mum. Several times I've bitten my tongue as Ive been on the verge of suggesting adoption ( Ive read on her enough to know how painful it is to suggest it).

The thing is I hate to watch her and her husband going through it.... I want to make it "better" somehow..... and I want her to know that I think she would do a fabulous job/ I'd support her every step of the way if it's what she wanted to do.

Best of luck in the future

lavenderandrose · 03/04/2017 20:04

namechanging, I don't think suggesting adoption is a bad thing at all. The problem is when it is flung out carelessly and impatiently on heated threads and phrased in such a way as to imply, or overtly state, that if adoption is not for you (whether that's your choice or a choice already made for you due to your own circumstances) that if you don't you are selfish, not committed to being a parent, draining the NHS when there are "hundreds of kids desperate for a home" (which to be honest is insulting to the children themselves - they aren't abandoned pets.)

OP posts:
Yorkshirebetty · 03/04/2017 20:06

Thank you, thank you for this excellent post. I too have been through infertility, and the casual "why don't you adopt? " was so irritating. The desire to have your own baby can be overwhelming. Good luck xxx

Polyethyl · 03/04/2017 20:08

I was criticised for stopping someone from saying "you can adopt"... So you can't win.
A friend is infertile due to numerous and on going health issues. She has two large boisterous dogs in a small flat. She and her DH work in the arts so have irregular incomes. A mutual friend started to say the "you can always adopt" line and I interrupted saying "stop, don't say that"
I was criticised for weeks.

fluffygreenmonsterhoody · 03/04/2017 20:08

Great post OP.

PurpleDaisies · 03/04/2017 20:09

I think although it is insensitive to suggest adoption it sometimes comes from a place of love.

I agree it probably comes from a place of love but it's just so patronising. As if any couple who can't conceive isn't aware of adoption as a potential avenue to pursue.

BipBippadotta · 03/04/2017 20:18

Flowers and good luck to you, OP.

Rufus27 · 03/04/2017 20:19

Brilliant post - and that comes from an adoptive Mum.

Blueroses99 · 03/04/2017 20:23

Well said OP. And good luck with the IVF Flowers

TeenAndTween · 03/04/2017 20:27

As if any couple who can't conceive isn't aware of adoption as a potential avenue to pursue.

Though to be fair, there are so many myths about who is allowed to adopt, that sometimes people may rule it out because they think they won't be permitted to.

I have been known to ask gently 'have you considered adoption' where someone is saying 'they will never be a Mum' when it is clear they have finished with IVF etc , because some people think they are too old / not wealthy enough / don't own own home / single or whatever. But always recognise that adoption is not for everyone / not for most people.

MetalMidget · 03/04/2017 20:31

The problem is, not everyone who applies for adoption is approved. Like being a foster carer, you need at least a spare bedroom. You also need a verifiable support network. That proved impossible for us: so out of the running. If you have a pond, fill it in. If you smoke, this severely impedes your chances even if you have given up. (This is not me!) Things that thousands of birth parents manage to be fine with: dogs, cramped house, full time demanding jobs, high BMIs, vegan, can be enough to lose you a child.

The same goes for IVF to a certain degree though - most health authorities put restrictions on it, and a couple don't offer it at all.

My local health authority won't authorise treatment if either partner has a child from a previous relationship, if the mother is overweight according to BMI, if either partner has smoked in the last three years, or if the mother is under 35 or over 39 (the age thing in particular varies massively from trust to trust).

The point stands that adoption is really hard though, some people seem to think it's like ordering from Amazon.

lavenderandrose · 03/04/2017 20:34

If you have the money to pay for it, IVF is pretty much - turn up at the clinic and 'I would like IVF please', hand over your debit card, good to go.

Adoption is more: 'I would like to adopt' and you go to an open evening and then you wait and you wait and you wait ...

but yes, people think it's like ordering from Amazon :)

OP posts:
Honeybee79 · 03/04/2017 20:35

What a great post. Thanks OP.

I have been where you are with infertility and faced similar comments. I wish you all the very best with your IVF.

HulaMelody · 03/04/2017 20:36

Brilliant post OP.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 03/04/2017 20:37

Well
Said op - really Flowers

Confusicous · 03/04/2017 20:38

Best post Iv ever read OP. Actually in tears. I'm with you Flowers

MN should make sure this stays up!

TeenAndTween · 03/04/2017 20:39

The adoption process for us was as emotionally gruelling as IVF. Not as physically demanding, but definitely hard on the emotions. Definitely not like ordering from Amazon.

CaveMum · 03/04/2017 20:41

Fab post lavenderandrose.

I suffered 3 years of fertility treatment before conceiving DD and am now due to drop DC2 any day following further treatment. I was one of the lucky ones and didn't quite require IVF, but it was the next rung on the ladder if our treatment had failed.

The number of people who thought it was ok to tell me to "just relax" or relay anecdotes of their cousin's girlfriend's bikini waxer's best mate who conceived simply by going on a boozy holiday was insane. Of course "relaxing" will cure my lifelong hormonal imbalances, why didn't I think of that?! Hmm

LadyandTramp · 03/04/2017 20:42

A very moving and eloquent post and I speak as a mother of 3 children... One naturally conceived, one via IVF (privately funded) and one adopted.

Good luck and hope your dreams come true Flowers

TalkingofMichaelAngel0 · 03/04/2017 20:44

Great post

MetalMidget · 03/04/2017 20:46

If you have the money to pay for it, IVF is pretty much - turn up at the clinic and 'I would like IVF please', hand over your debit card, good to go.

I think it depends on the clinic - my brother and SIL had to go private as there was a child from a previous relationship, but the clinic turned quite a lot of people down. They'd only take on patients that had a good chance of carrying a child to term, so applied a lot of the same rules about smoking, BMI, as it made their success rate look better. Guess (as with nhs IVF!) it varies wildly.