to make a polite request about infertility threads

[lavenderandrose]

I know, it's naughty, it's sort of a TAAT but it's really AT about a lot of Ts. MNHQ, if I really am out of line I apologise unreservedly and will accept the thread being taken down, but it really is intended in a very genuine spirit.

I am not asking anybody to change their mind about their stance or belief on IVF funding, abortion, adoption or ethics of donor conception. Please continue to discuss as passionately as before.

But, please, please, can I explain a little bit about the 'childless people should foster / they should adopt because there are so many children needing homes' and why they are irrelevant and also potentially distressing to read.

Firstly, foster carers are marvellous. Without them, children would not be living in family homes at all but in children's homes. In a children's home, privacy can be difficult, children can feel unsettled and anxious at being in close proximity to many others especially those significantly older/with very challenging behaviour and also can become institutionalised which can make their lives as adults very difficult. To grow up with foster parents in a family home, with 'ordinary" rules and, in the best cases, having a stable childhood, is the best and these people who offer that are, put simply, amazing.

But it isn't enough to be amazing. You need to have one adult who does not work outside of the home. This is because you will be required to attend meetings and to be available should the child need you. This is not like being a normal mum to an average twelve year old, say. This telegraph article is pessimistic but also more realistic than some of the rosy glasses on here.

The final point with fostering - it isn't your child. No matter how attached you get to him or her, and they to you, you are not their parent. For someone longing for their own child, fostering is not the answer. In some ways, it's like suggesting to a single person they take your husband out for a date. OK, that's a bit of a stupid example but nonetheless fostering is not what most people think of when desperate for their own child.

Adoption is slightly different because legally and in every other sense, the child becomes 'yours.' But it isn't for everyone, and more pertinently, everyone isn't for it.

You may have seen billboard posters in your town inviting you to adopt. They imply that it doesn't take much. You just need to be a loving person - single, gay, old, young, black, white - are all unimportant. I can understand how they make people think it's possibly as easy as attending a few courses, coming home with a cute toddler and that's all great. You get your longed for child, the child gets Mummy and Daddy. What could possibly go wrong?

The problem is, not everyone who applies for adoption is approved. Like being a foster carer, you need at least a spare bedroom. You also need a verifiable support network. That proved impossible for us: so out of the running. If you have a pond, fill it in. If you smoke, this severely impedes your chances even if you have given up. (This is not me!) Things that thousands of birth parents manage to be fine with: dogs, cramped house, full time demanding jobs, high BMIs, vegan, can be enough to lose you a child. (Please note adoptive parents - 'can be' - I know many will have adopted with one or more of these things but I am just trying to illustrate they can go against you.)

But let's say you are approved. Brilliant! You can take your new son or daughter home now. But no - you have to wait to be matched. You may go through the heartbreak of a match falling through. The wait is endless. But then you finally get your son or daughter. It's a deliriously happy time, but it's also for many adoptive parents a sad one. Many will notice how few the congratulations are, how little cards adorn the mantelpiece, than with a new baby.

As the years go on you may find your child is perfect in every way, or you may find that their behaviour is a challenge. Around between 10 and 16% of adoptions break down altogether. many more limp on, adoring their child but with hurt and pain on both sides.

Please, please, don't think I'm saying anything negative about adopted children or parents. I would never do that. But it's not for everyone.

For a baby, I need IVF. It will be self funded. I understand fully why the NHS cannot pay for that. I respect your view whatever it is.

But please do not assume you can cure me and tell me that if I really wanted a child I could find thousands upon thousands of pounds, or foster, or adopt.

I work with children. For years now I have had people earnestly tell me what a wonderful mother I would be and why don't I have one. I don't mind that. Occasionally, I will need to have a difficult conversation with somebody and they will tell me I don't even have children and therefore I know nothing about nothing.

I am accepting that having children may not be possible. I will be very upset. But I can reach acceptance.

But please, don't imply this is my fault.

Again, sorry if the post doesn't come across the way I intended it to. I'm just asking people gently to not put forward fostering or adoption as cure alls.

Brilliant post, OP.

Good luck.

@FallenMadonnawiththebadboobies best wishes with your current treatment.

Your post chimes with research I've read - women who've suffered both infertility and cancer - and you summed it up very eloquently.

Great post op. Essentially I think people mean well and often just don't have a clue how to offer comfort and end up expressing it clumsily to try to offer hope in what is quite a fairly hopeless situation.

But no, adoption is most definitely not an easy option. Dsis adopted two siblings. They wouldn't let her adopt a young child/ baby because bil smokes and refused to cut down/ stop. The process itself was hugely intrusive and she's found it hard to accept that the children should be encouraged to write to their birth parents twice a year. She wasn't prepared for that. They also have to meet up with their other siblings regularly. Their particular issues (behaviour, development, trauma of memories) are fairly subtle when compared to other children who have been in care and adopted at 6/7yo. Nonetheless the issues are there and very real. They're in a mainstream school but are struggling. They've had loads of assessment and dsis has felt largely unsupported by the local authority in terms of ongoing support. It's put a huge strain on her marriage (don't get me wrong, all it has done is widen the cracks that were already there) and I'd say it's been a massive struggle for her - despite the children being relatively 'easy'. She loves them and would never now give them up but it's made her assess her whole life - including her marriage. I'm not sure she'd choose to go through it again knowing what she knows now.

By contrast, my other dsis fell pregnant first attempt at IVF. Dniece is now 7. Dsis would however have loved more children - tried IVF again without success and is now too old. She's very grateful for her dd but it hasn't been without its own heartache.

Good luck to everyone else out there who is going through any of this. I hope you find happiness, whichever route you decide to take.

OP, good luck with the IVF And thank you for this post.

I'm fortunate to have been able to conceive naturally. But the process of parenting my own children whilst watching friends go through the approval, matching and introduction stages of adoption has made me realise that I totally lack the resilience and skills required of adoptive and foster parents. It's a role suitable only for a committed and talented minority, and not an alternative for infertile couples, definitely.

I have just seen the post by OP about using the term "own" rather than "biological", and the post by drspouse. I don't entirely agree and I think it partly comes down to context. As an adoptee I would still use "my own" or "your own" in the sense of "own flesh and blood". If I were talking to someone who had adopted and the children were there I would certainly not make references to the children being their own or not their own, because in my experience every adoption family sees these issues differently, ie that is a different context. I don't think we should need to tread on eggshells when talking about our experiences online, in this context. If people think that I am being unreasonable or insensitive I am happy to listen though.

@BillSykeDog
As I say I only ever explain when people ask! I would never randomly ask people. But we fall into some of the "can't get approved" categories mentioned and yet my own children (who would be very upset not to be called that) are sitting by me.

Just to clarify a misconception in your OP.

We've just adopted and my mantelpiece is completely groaning with congratulations cards, and we've received so many lovely presents that I have an ever expanding list so that I can keep track of who sent what.

Our daughter is loved and welcomed by an incredibly wide circle of friends and family.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but please don't share misconceptions about situations about which you know very little.

Sukey can you please re-read the poster above who asked people NOT to refer to adopted children as "not your own"?

That is a valid want, however my wants are equally as valid. I'm not saying that people who adopt do not have their own children. I'm saying that those, like me, who go through the devastation of infertility and decide not to adopt are equally entitled to say that for them, it was the failing to conceive and give birth to their biological child which caused them the grief. That is allowed. This is a thread about infertility, and I am more qualified than most MNers to comment on this, given that DH and I have gone through it.

MNers as a whole that is, not MNers on this particular thread.

I'm currently undergoing IVF as a single person and recently had to explain to my Dad that yes I had thought about adoption, but adoption would mean an older child and not a baby. He used to work for social services, so I am confused about where he thinks all these adoptable babies come from... He seemed to understand a bit more about why I am having the treatment once I'd explained that. My own views have changed a lot from the very naive ones I held in my early twenties.

Thank you for this thread OP.

This thread has really rankled me for some reason, a few responses in particular. It just comes across so "us and them". Life throws crap at everyone, and they have to deal with things how they feel is best for them. I haven't read the multitude of infertility threads where adoption/fostering is offered as a "cure" for infertility however I can see why someone would suggest it. It is one option/pathway of becoming a parent (although perhaps fostering isn't?)

I would like one of my own thank you very much

^ This is a reality that some adopters face, ie that they aren't your "real" children. Adopted children should not be viewed as a consolation prize.

It isn't enough to be amazing (to adopt)

This is also really annoying. Two of mine also have SEN and the pedestal I get put on by people commenting how great/wonderful/ special I must be. Oh, and "only special people get special children".

to all those going through infertility.

Can I also just add that suggesting fostering/adoption to an infertile couple is not "irrelevant"? Lots of couples who go down the adoption route have explored their infertility and exhausted fertility treatment. If you don't want to consider adoption it is absolutely fine, you don't need to justify it, but to say it is irrelevant is a bit unfair. Some are desperate for a baby that they have given birth to, for others they want a child to complete their family. Both are absolutely fine.

YANBU. We decided adoption was definitely not for us, for many reasons. We now have a yummy 2 year old DS conceived via donor egg ivf. Best of luck to you OP xxx

Adoption and fostering isn't the same as having "your own" children, otherwise why would people go to the immense they go to conceive, possibly spending tens of thousands of pounds, putting themselves through a potentially (though not always) gruelling and traumatic physical process, often several times. Why would they scour the internet looking for magic potions, seek the advice of people they don't know, talk with strangers about their most intimate details, their sex lives, have medical practitioners peering and them and up them as though they were in a lab? And only after hope is gone and they have come to terms with it, why do they only then move onto adoption?

I realise it's not the same for everyone, and that some people go to adoption first. But most people don't. The urge to procreate is the first one.

No adopted children are NOT a consolation prize. But it isn't the same as giving birth to your own biological child and it is disingenuous to say that it is. Adopted children are themselves, and bring their own rewards and own challenges and own love. I think it's just as important to acknowledge your own limitations and say "Actually we don't think it's for us, and we wouldn't be doing any potential child any favours if we were to proceed." I would make a crap adoptive parent. I think it's important to be honest about this.

Just in case it wasn't clear enough, this post and my opinion is absolutely not that adopted children are not their parents "own" (inasmuch as any child can "belong" to its parents). I have adopted cousins and so does DH. They're still our cousins :)

Sukey No it's not the same as having biological children. Nobody said it was nor that it's for everyone. BUT they are still your own. So please don't use that terminology. For a start, it's not fair to children who don't wish to be told they are not their parents' own.

Your post is perfect. I ripped a woman apart the other day who judged me for going through IVF instead of fostering/adopting because she was the millionth person to make that comment. It isn't the same. Nobody would ever suggest to someone without fertility problems to adopt or foster instead, so why say so for infertile couples? Nobody would deny modern Cancer treatment for themselves so why tell infertile couples that they weren't meant to have kids and they should go through unnatural means?

For goodness sake drspouse I never said that adopted children weren't their parents "own". Please stop deliberately putting words into my mouth. I said I wanted my own baby. As someone who has suffered infertility and repeated failed interventions I am entitled to express that, so just stop it :( There is nothing in that which could be taken to mean that I don't think adopted children do not belong to their parents, though I did question whether any parents could be seen to " own"their children.

I have my own baby, my very own.

Who else's would he be?

He is adopted.

He is my own.

I'm bowing out of this now. It's just upsetting me and I never get upset on MN. It's completely obvious what meant.

He is your baby Rosie and no one ever suggested he wasn't, including me.

I definitely read your post differently to you, and I'm not the only one. Rather than tantruming, you could just apologise?

In case anyone thought I was "tantruming" about my infertility, in case if I inadvertently offended them, I apologise for the use of the word "own", despite repeated clarifications and explanations that I was talking about my own experiences rather than passing judgement on anyone else's.

All the best, OP, and to all the others experiencing similar.

Ffs.

Can I also just add that suggesting fostering/adoption to an infertile couple is not "irrelevant"

Yeah, because I'm sure that people in those situations had never even thought of adoption or fostering until you mentioned it.

It is irrelevant because your 'helpful' suggestions are really unwelcome unless someone specifically tells you they want help thinking about alternatives.

I know someone who takes umbrage with people saying things like 'I've adopted a puppy' because she's adopted a child and its not the "same".

Of course its not, its just words.

Own has lots of meanings.

Puppy has lots of meanings.

Our actions shout far louder than terminology.

I meant ADOPT has lots of meanings.

Not puppy