Men on gynae ward

[roarityroar]

Yesterday I was taken into hospital after heavy bleeding. I needed a blood transfusion and then went into theatre for surgery. They ask you to keep all sanitary pads to show how much you're bleeding, which is obviously very personal and after the general anaesthetic I felt groggy and vulnerable.

There are 4 beds in this ward with curtains. Two of the other three women have their partners here. I feel pretty vulnerable as it is and given it's the gynaecology ward AIBU to really not want random non-HCP men just a curtain away when I'm bleeding from my sodding vagina?

Losing a baby is not the same as other 'medical shit'. It is completely, completely different. I have been in hospital for major surgery twice outside of my EPRC - including removal of a tumour - and no, I didn't expect to have my partner with me outside of visiting hours. But my EPRC was completely different. It was by far the worst day of my life. If that wasn't your experience, that's fine - but it was for me and it is for many other women.

And yes, you are trying to make other women feel bad about the way they handled their miscarriage and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so.

JigglyTuff
I can see what yourr saying. Originally it jusy sounded like "i managed shit happens get over it". When youve just said its about being an 'adult' the inplication is that people who need that emotional support arent adult or are less adult.
You might get pulled up for thay by a few posters as it can be taken as people who need support are just being childish.

Gyn issues are just like any ither medical issue (other than miscarriage imo). But thats why i would say its perfectly fine to have the visitors. OP wouldnt say 'sorry theres some bleeding from a different body part' so other people are wrong to have their partners.
It would ve unreasonable to limit visitors jusy because someone doesnt like the idea of a male visitor elsewhere in the ward thag they cant see.

I had a missed miscarriage at 14 weeks and I had to go in to hospital and take medication to make the fetus come out. While I was in bed in the gyne ward I suddenly felt unwell. The doctors had to quickly help me to deliver the baby on the ward. The curtains were closed around the bed but there was men visiting their partners sitting in the ward. I was crying as I was in a lot of pain. I nearly passed out as my blood pressure went very low and I mistakenly thought I was dying. There was a lot of blood and I was anxiously asking the nurses to make sure they found the baby amid all the blood and tissue as I wanted to bury it and not have it thrown away as medical waste. When it was all over the doctor went out and the curtain was open a gap and I saw a man sitting across the ward. He caught my eye through the curtain and I felt like shouting 'fuck off' to him. Why did he sit there silently listening - his DP was chilling in her bed reading a magazine - she didn't need him at the moment. I just thought if I was him and that was happening to a woman in the ward i'd make myself scarce for 30 mins and go off an get a coffee - not sit there completly invading a vulnerable person's privacy. I felt uncomfortable that all the people on the ward had heard it but much, much more uncomfortable having a man listening in.

In principle, i agree that non-patients, especially male ones, should not be spending the night on female only wards (including post natal wards).
In practise, it is not always as clear cut as that. For example, my MIL has Alzheimers disease and my FIL is her carer. If she is admitted to hospital, he is allowed to visit at any time of the day or night, as she is extremely vulnerable in hospital.

A couple of days after I had my first miscarriage, I had an episode of very heavy bleeding. My then-boyfriend (now DH) did not live in the same town as me. I phoned him late in the evening as I got in a taxi to A&E, he rushed to be with me, but by the time he got there, I had been admitted onto a ward. Because the staff were nice they let him stay with me until the morning. It would have been a shitty thing to send away the partner of a woman admitted to the ward in the middle of the night in my opinion.

Just treat that example as one of the many other posts of "you think you have it bad. My situation is worse. I managed. So should you"

I really wasn't trying to do that. Baby-loss at whatever stage is heartbreaking and really shit. Yes women should have support during that time.

Sometimes the facilities to have that support just aren't available. I'm sorry for anyone who has gone through that feeling unsupported.

Post natal wards are not staffed at a level to allow them to help with the proper care of a newborn. It is exhausting giving birth and then having to care for a new baby alone without help all night. Especially if you aren't able to move or lift things. It makes sense to allow Dad's to stay on the ward to help and would allow the mother to get some much needed rest.

I remember being very uncomfortable as a visitor on a male ward. I was visiting my teenage son and found out he was being discharged so they said I could hang around to wait for the discharge, I was 200 miles from home as he was at uni when he was admitted to hospital. An old man was in the bed opposite, I would think he was late 70s or 80s. They closed the curtains to do something and it was obviously painful and he was crying and calling it and then he soiled the bed, we couldn't help hearing what the medical people were saying to him. I felt so sorry for him and embarrassed listening to it all. Some things do need privacy.

UnbornMortificad
Sometimes things sound like that even if its unintended.

For some people the support is their partner.

My main thing is that people may need support from family partners etc for a range of medical issues. Its not ok for OP to want zero men present

The problem here is that we need decent hospitals with private rooms for each patient. Nobody should have to be separated from their husband or partner when they need support and you would be unreasonable to suggest that. There should be proper facilities for them to stay with their loved ones 24/7, but they and you should have your own rooms. A curtain isn't a wall and the NHS should not put people in facilities designed similarly to emergency medical tents in war zones.

Agree Oneiro - although we do have 'decent hospitals' that provide good care and we do have hospitals with predominantly single rooms. Unfortunately they are not universal and some trusts are trying to provide care in antiquated premises that are not fit for purpose.

The current standard is that hospitals must report mixed sex breaches where people of the opposite ex are required to spend overnight together but this only applies to patients - not visitors. Certain specialised areas are exempt too - A&E, ITU, and short stay assessment units. Anywhere offering overnight accommodation must have single sex bays and lavatories with fines for breaches.

If you are upset by the presence of men (fathers) on a postnatal ward most will offer single room if you actually ask. Personally, I'm less bothered about gender and more bothered about other people in general. Many hospitals offer amenity rooms where you can pay an amount for a single room whilst having NHS care, if one is available (sadly there often aren't rooms available).

Absolutely Crumbs. Private rooms where partners can stay if they wish to is a basic requirement of decent medical care. If the NHS were meeting this basic need for human dignity the OP would not have felt the need to post and neither would vulnerable people have their support removed whenever staff decide it's not convenient for people to visit.

A few examples, 6 bay gynae area, 2 women in at 8am as they'd had MMC, they needed to have whatever in order to negate the need for a D&C. Their male partners were with them, I had no issue with that, what a horrifying time. The women decided to stay as not much had happened, we had a girly chat that night, hearing stories of scans where no HB was found. They had to wear pads and use a commode to see if anything passed.

Another time, two men and a woman, assuming partner, plus Mum and Dad, bought onto ward at midnight, waiting for a woman to come out of surgery for an ectopic. Horrific time.

Then another occasion during visiting on a surgical ward when an old lady had an accident, they tried to protect her modesty, but loose stools fell on the floor as she was walking. Myself and the old lady to my left looked away and paid no attention, we felt the poor woman needed her modesty, in a horrifying situation. (In my mind borderline negligence as she pressed her buzzer in plenty of time to get a commode to her.)

Another example, old lady of surgical next to me, who was on liquid only food, couldn't control her bowels. The smell was something else. This would happen at any given time.

The that did piss me off actually was a woman who came in for some, she had her yappy daughters there's who had no respect, phones going off all the while, calls on loud speaker, just waiting for whatever infusion their Mum was having. The patient was a gobshite too telling me what I should and shouldn't get done as it'd ruin my life. Yet she'd never had the surgery, it was merely her opinion on the matter. Listening in as consultants delivered mind blowing news, I called DH, afterwards she said I was making mountains out of molehills, despite being told my organs were severely affected by something, plus I had a build up of fluid, which I know really isn't good as per the lead surgeon.

So accidents can happen at any time, my DH has dealt with me having many a miscarriage and massive PV bleeds during pregnancy, plus a late loss. Plus flooding during periods. I don't think if I was in the bed next to you, his mind would be on your pads and bleeding. Ideally they would have put me in a private room, but oncology patients quite rightly get them first, or patients with dementia/Alzheimer's as they need round the clock care.

I'm sorry you feel this way, by all means ask is there any chance if a room comes free you'd be eligible, as you want more privacy. With some patients the partners deliver hands on care that the nurses don't have time to. With some patients like the elderly, they'll call Mr Jones at 11pm to come in as his wife won't settle, the nurses are at a loss.

I'm just giving examples, I really hope things improve soon. I promise you when a loved one is in hospital, they're focus is on the sick relative.

There are some good reasons why there are some visiting hours and single sex ward.
These reasons have always been seen as more important than the need for patients to get support of their partners.
Imo these reason still applies and partners (so mainly male) shouldn't be allowed to stay at night or out of visiting hours.

Completely agree.

So the woman given the medication to deliver her dead child, comes onto the ward at 8am, the Ward Sister says cheerio we'll take it from here. Or the woman in surgery at midnight for a life threatening ectopic, you pack the family off home, telling them we'll give you a call if anything goes wrong?

Or the woman with Dementia/Alzheimer's giving the nurses hell, in a strange environment, strange people, you would have her create merry hell, instead of allowing her elderly husband to come and soothe her? Really, truly, scared, because she's got all these needles, she won't keep the oxygen on.

Or on the ward when a relative of mine had end stage cancer, even though it was a male only ward, his wife & daughter were to wait it out at home, waiting for the call he'd died.

I can't recall what they call it, but if you needed just to be observed & they need you out of A&E they plonk you on a male only or female only bay. But your relatives are more than welcome to stay, as they don't know how your condition will progress.

I remember one example, I was on a ward a step below ICU, but there was a patient in ICU that had a lot of people who cared about them. The patients condition was they were being kept alive artificially. So they could have died any moment. One patient on my ward complained their relatives struggled to get to the ward for all these people. I thought how heartless, when these people were camped in the corridor just waiting. The person died.

I have complications that see me on wards with end of life patients. I don't care how ill I feel. I can totally understand the relatives wanting the absorb every last second with a loved one.

On an ECG my boobs were pretty much showing, I had tubes everywhere. If you're that ill you don't think oh what if Mr Smith saw my boobs whilst I was trying to get comfy. I assume Mr Smith has a lot more important things going on. If he did see my boobs good for him.

I've never been in a situation where I've been in hospital and overly cared one jot about the people around me and what they thought. Having more pressing matters to hand.

We're allowed differing opinions, I really can't imagine anyone being that focussed on another patient, if the Sister is allowing relatives in when it's not visiting hours. To me that signals the patient is quite ill.

The OP was fairly clear in her posts that due to the lack of privacy she could tell that neighbouring patients were not in a crisis situation.
Certainly, the criteria for visitors staying seems to have relaxed a lot.
I think it's one of those situations where the exception proves the rule.

As a general point, most hospitals now allow 24/7 access for carers if a patient requires a carer. There was a campaign for this by the family of a man with dementia.

if the NHS were meeting this basic need for human dignity
Theres so many replies like this. Lets just complain about how rubbish the NHS is.
Just feel the need to point out that so much of the NHS has been ousourced to private contactors and the NHS has been chronically underfunded. If youre feeling cynical then its possible to see that if you run it into the ground in places, get people angry then they'll agree to whatevwr 'fix' you suggest. Our Prine Minister hasnt rules out opening up bit if our health service to US private healthcare firms so our taxes will be lining the pockets of big firms (and soon they'll decide certaij elements of care arent 'financially viable').

Nobody has the right to single rooms unless there is a medical need in an iver stretched service. Limited money, do we spend it on saving lives or single rooms for people who dont think its fair that other people have visitors.

Theres lots of questions about visiting hours, how many, when etc. But if i was ill in hospital you bet id have more pressing things to worry about than whether somebodys husband was keeping them company.

But nobody wants to abolish visitors altogether, MaisyPops. Visitors coming during visiting hours is a different thing from visitors 24/7.

If you don't care about other visitors there whatever the time of day then fine, that's you. Other people do care. Surely you can understand why people might?

Actually Maisypops I think I said NHS provided good care but the buildings in some trusts are not fit for purpose. It's down to underfunding and compromises patient care beyond the "not liking other people".

Yes there is significant outsourcing to private sector the more lucrative, lower risk elective surgery. At the moment private hospitals offer single rooms but they are looking to creating bays for multiple NHS patients. It's all about the money.
Single rooms provide a safer patient environment, reduce cross infection risk, allow better sleep, enable family access at all times. Oddly they also reduce falls and pain scores (which is opposite of what most people imagine).
The money is too tight to allow development of ancient, crumbling buildings except in a very few flagship places, sadly. So cramped, public, noisy, goldfish bowl care continues to the detriment of patients.
Do patients and visitors notice others? Of course they do! Humans are nosey.

It's a tough one. I know the feeling you have, I recently had a section and was hooked up to a drain which meant I couldn't put trousers on, only the gown.. so I was walking around in just underwear, which had a massive pad in it. Boobs flopping around loose as couldn't get my bra on. Walking hunched over like quasimodo! My partner didn't come as he had our toddler but the other women all had regular visitors.. not outside of visiting times, but visiting times were 10am-10pm! I did feel very vulnerable and exposed despite the curtain, but if my partner could have been there with me then I would have liked it, as he really wouldn't be paying attention to anyone else. Even when feeling exposed I just felt that this is how it is, these women need their partners... the only solution would be more private rooms and that isn't going to happen.

I'm old enough to remember when parents weren't encouraged to visit children on wards, they "upset" the children. When I was a 2 year old in hospital my father was quite clear that he and my mother were visiting every day and if that caused a problem to nursing staff then tough. However, that was one hour a day and most children got less, my mother said they suggested one visit a week.

Roll on 25 years and my 4 year old son was in hospital, the ward allowed visiting from 9 am to 8 pm, I insisted on being with my child post surgery and after being threatened with the police, bring it on I worked on the next sub division and knew the chances of police attending was vanishingly small and if they did arrive I was a mother sitting quietly by a child's bed so what were they going to do and anyway the chances were I would know them so not likely to arrest me and what would be the charge? Anyway after we got over that I was asked to leave the ward and not let other parents know I was coming back. It was quite interesting to observe the ward that night and to listen to the lies the parents were told the next morning, e.g. one little girl sick and distressed during the night and when she told her mother the nurse assured her the child was making it up.

Who would accept that now? Things change so in 20 years time it will probably be normal to have family supporting you round the clock in hospital and families that don't do it will be judged.

Things change so in 20 years time it will probably be normal to have family supporting you round the clock in hospital and families that don't do it will be judged

Maybe the NHS will have sufficient funding to give everyone private rooms?

Things change so in 20 years time it will probably be normal to have family supporting you round the clock in hospital and families that don't do it will be judged

Maybe the NHS will have sufficient funding to give everyone private rooms?

There won't be an NHS in 20 years time; healthcare will be outsourced to private companies and will be contributions/insurance based IMO.

A curtain isn't a wall and the NHS should not put people in facilities designed similarly to emergency medical tents in war zones.. If you think an NHS ward is comparable to a field hospital in Afghanistan you are truly deluded. No, curtains and bays don't offer the privacy that single rooms would. But unless we knock down all our old hospitals and build new ones, purpose built with single en-suite rooms (and look how well PFI hospitals have turned out!!) then that's as good as it's going to get until people are happy to pay the amount of tax needed to fund the Health Service they want.

FWIW nursing people in single rooms is more risky too in many clinical areas, and requires more staff. We don't have that either.

Agree siege apart from the more risky bit. Single rooms are not higher risk, they are lower risk. There is no reason at all for multiple occupancy rooms. Arguements for bays are based on nurse convenience and assumption rather than fact.
So, person with dementia disturbs everyone at night, unsettled, wandering, calling out. Wakes others who need more attention- loo, commode, pain relief, drink that they wouldn't need if left to sleep. Single room means person with dementia can have appropriate music to help them calm, a relative or career they know, a room that looks more like the bedroom they remember. Other patients are free to sleep un disturbed by wandering naked men or incontinent confused women. They sleep better and get better quickly costing NHS less and taking up less nursing time.
Single ensuites reduce infection risk so shorter stays, less antibiotics and less cost. Similarly constipation is less of an issue with en suites.
Nurse are complacent about safety of patients in open bays. They get checked less frequently so greater risk of falls.
I can't think of any clinical area where single rooms are not preferable apart perhaps from A&E and even them most newer units have walls to three sides with a front curtain - which is better than just curtains.