To go ape about all this (re dd, almost 14)

[SaltySeaDog72]

dd1 turns 14 on Monday. Addicted to Smart phone. Very deceptive, smuggles devices into her room late at night sometimes despite rules and consequences. Socially very confident. Two inches taller than me. Blond and leggy. Academic self esteem not good ever (dyslexic) in lower groups, she is capable of being in higher groups but never puts in enough effort to demonstrate that.

Am a LP for last 4 years. ExH 1 mile away, contact in place EoW plus 1 evening in the week and all stable. Works well. Her 12yo sister is ASD and has problems with anxiety which makes evenings quite difficult. dd1 is oblivious to this, am just adding context.

Was really in need of getting away last month and finally managed to get away for 3 nights. Came back to find house trashed and clearly dd1 had stayed over unsupervised with friends, she told her dad she slept at a friend's house elsewhere. There was a huge bag of rubbish in the middle of the living room (full of Easter egg boxes, MacDonald's) several 2l bottles of Fanta and coke (open) left lying around, spillages, tablets (as in medication) of unknown source on floor, furniture moved around, pictures moved. Blah blah. dd1 said 'I did tidy up'. Was really shocked to come home to this. dd1 birthday sleepover cancelled. No sleepovers for the foreseeable. Decided not to go completely mental due to no boys or drugs/alcohol but had a conversation about it being very irresponsible and not appropriate.

After this dd1 that same week I caught dd1 with an old smart phone in her room at 23:30h. Phone removed for 24hrs as per normal. Very pissed off she did this just days after being punished for secret sleepover.

The following week am in the bathroom and shocked to find underneath a towel dd1 has tried to wash a sexy thong, pink undies with tassels. Revolting things. In a bit of a state. Tell her off and she said a friend leant them to her. Said 'do you think these are appropriate for a 13 yo girl? She says no. Told her never to have them in the house again.

We have had a few chats about how superficial she is with homework and she got upset about being in lower groups. I told her I feel I am having to parent her like a toddler by making sure old smart phones etc are hidden from her and I feel he behaviour is not mature and she should start spending some time on her work to balance things out if she wants to move up groups at school. She looks contrite but says 'yes' but now it's the end of term.

FFWD to yesterday I collect her from a party at her friend's and there are two boys there. Am waiting on the door step for dd1 to put shoes on. One of the boys mentions 'dd1 it's your birthday on Monday, what are you doing' and says, laughing 'can we sleep at your house again'

So in the car I said to her. He slept over that weekend didn't he. Cue dd1 getting all angry, first denying it then saying 'he only stayed til midnight' it's clear at least one boy and maybe others were at my house sleeping over with no adult present. She then sat in the. She then sat in car saying nothing so I removed phone and sent her to bed. Have since seen evident she has been online at 23:46 last night despite phone being removed. Dunno how she has done that. I have lost control of this kid.

Am livid at the disrespect and the not giving a shit and the bahaving like she is 16.

I have tried to not go ape with her but am now at the end of my rope. Meeting up with her dad today to discuss what to do.

She is going to football match with her grandad today and I was thinking of cancelling but it's with family so don't know. AIBU to remove her iPhone4 and replace it with a crap phone with no internet? AIBU to cancel birthday shopping trip?

I share the concerns of mathanxiety, whatsername and yorksha about safeguarding/exploitation.
The boy challenging right under your nose could be him showing her you are not doing anything. Similarly the mess - untidy teens can be remarkably adept at clearing up after sneaky parties.

Regarding the wifi, virginmedia page here may help:

help.virginmedia.com/system/templates/selfservice/vm/help/customer/locale/en-GB/portal/200300000001000/article/HELP-2411/Changing-your-Virgin-Media-Hub's-settings-page-password?query=hub%20password

However if you (or a friend) can set it up, some routers allow easy set up of separate networks in house - kids on one restricted network, switched off every night, household/adults stay running on the other. I did this when mine were teens although you had to hand craft it in those days.

Your OH needs to step up - appreciate this may be difficult. If the school is not addressing your DDs' needs then would they actually be worse off moving? May even give a fresh start to DD1 to form some new groups of friends. You say the the ex grammar does not do SEN - is this what they say or is it their reputation? I hate to say it but can you afford any kind of private SEN help for your daughter if its not available from the school? The suggestions for an engaging hobby which takes her into new circles and builds a sense of self outside of school also resonates with me if you can find her something.
And yes you need to talk to her and create firmer boundaries and give her ways to say 'no' to other people.

Out of interest, have you spoken to the parents of the other girls (the ones at the sleepover )? I'm assuming you told them what happened as presumably they lied too to their parents? I can't believe they would have been happy knowing that their daughters were sleeping unsupervised at your house. You mentioned you spoke to one of the mums about her daughter's medication so she must be aware of the circumstances? It may be worth getting together with these other parents and seeing if they know anything you don't, it could be their children have said something more to their parents than your daughter has.

I found this book on teenagers really helpful.
In particular, it helped me find a better way to give DC incentives to behave well (they can loose as well as earn time with the phone/computer etc...).

I'm also finding managing to have time on a 1-1 basis essential, preferably in the car when we can actually have some nice conversations about naything and everything. It's easy to forget this is just as important as when they were little (and mines always got that thanks to bed time reading before sleep) but much harder to find the time and the space to do (I found DC not quite as keen on it even though I also know they really enjoy it when we do iyswim)

Re school, is there another school nearby they could go to?

Protecting them - including from themselves IS loving them.

My dd tells me everything, she jokes even when she doesn't want to apparently I have superpowers inducing honesty! Even her bff tells me stuff then they go out and I get a text 'bff says yet again why did I tell your mum that?!'

am speaking to the mum of one friend today. The mum of the other friend did not engage with ExH after the sleepover (never returned the call) so dd1 will not be alllowed round there again.

dd1 does netball at a club weekly and has done for year, so it's not a 100% failure on my part.

We have also had years of private help, private assessments by ed psychs for both girls (often with great difficulty with reluctance from school to allow professionals in) and years of private tuition in literacy and numeracy for dd1 and tuition and speech and language therapy for dd2.

My DS is 14 next week and has dyslexia - he is not confident at all, I assume due to the dyslexia because he is so bright but struggles a lot at school and especially with homework. He has a tendency to go off the rails and is sneaky too and pushes the boundaries. I think teenagers do in any case but more so when they don't fit in as well in certain areas. Try to speak to her without getting too annoyed - I know she's done wrong but try not to be too hard with the punishments because if she's anything like my ds she will just dig her heels in and you have other things to contend with. Definitely either change the password or turn off the wifi at a certain time and try to come to some compromise - good luck OP

Lots of talk about love bombing and how the OP needs to be accountable etc etc but the reality here is that this is a child who is gaining her independence and needs boundaries to be able to do so safely. Teenagers will take risks, it was ever thus. Far too much talk about how she should be allowed to do x and y because not allowing it means she will push away, but reality here is that she needs boundaries. Teenagers do need boundaries even if they will plan to overstep them at all levels.

And what they also need is communication along with consequence. They think they're adult and responsible but they're not. So you need to communicate that with them.

For example, my DS is fourteen. he's not into parties etc however I did have an incident last year where he was supposed to be staying at his dad's overnight and I was going to a concert. 10:30 I get a phone call from DS saying that he's decided to stay at mine. He'd told his dad he was coming to mine to pick something up and then texted from here to say he'd decided to stay. Didn't ring me for another couple of hours by which time I was just leaving but still in Central london and unable to do anything from where I was.

So got home and the next morning had a very frank discussion with DS along the lines of that he thinks he's responsible, and generally he is, but the fact that he unilaterally came to mine without telling anyone means that clearly he isn't yet responsible enough to be trusted to be left alone at night. How if something had happened his dad was oblivious to the fact that I wasn't at home, and how if something had happened to me no-one would have known he was in the house alone and he would have woken up next morning without me being there. Actions have consequences and the reality is that most kids don't think through what those might be. Also I stated that until now (now being the time it happened) his dad would ordinarily have let him come to mine and even accepted that he'd decided to stay here, however now he knows that DS is capable of deception on that level that trust will be gone and he'll need to earn it back. His dad won't likely let him wander down here alone again in future....

So for your DD I would talk as much about the potential consequences of what she did and how she's behaving. Pictures potentially being sent across the network have consequences, and it's illegal both to receive or distribute them and in fact it's illegal for her to send them if she's under eighteen. And that's before we get to how vulnerable that makes her if anyone decides to distribute a picture she may have taken or which may have been taken of her. They're young to be having parties at this age, and if any of them are drinking then they're new to the experience. If having a party without parental consent then what would she do if one of them drank too much, took something and ended up collapsing and it happened in her house? Tell her that you would be held responsible given it's your house and the children should have been supervised. Even though you were unaware the reality is that if any of those children had come to harm in your house the burden of responsibility would rest with you. She needs to know that. She needs to know that her actions have consequences for other people. And again, there's the trust issue with her dad at steak.

WIFI password would be changed in my house, and all electronic devices removed. I don't buy the argument that it cuts her off from her friends, tough. We were all grounded at one point or another as kids and we survived. Nobody's talking about permanent exclusion here.

So yes communication communication communication but also consequences. It's possible to do both. And it's ok to hit the roof over the kids having a party and leaving the house in a state while communicating the consequences and dangers at the same time.

Remember she is a child and you are the parent

I have a 14 year old

She tells me about - the dick pics, girls naked selfies, full face included, the parties, drug taking and drinking, the girls being bullied because of the selfies, the boys being laughed at for dick pics, the girls in the pill and the condoms being passed around.

I would also go through her phone - if and when returned on condition that you have full access once a week - or as you chose (may result in her deleting pics)

Discuss how these thing escalate and get passed around - i.e. The pictures - the boys telling everyone how far they got - how girls (unfortunately) still get named called etc and a reputation - (I know it's not fair but it can act as a deterrent)

Teens want to show off and be 'the first' it's sad but you have to step up for her safety.

I don't know if this will bring you any comfort. My dd was a nightmare teen, my exh just gave in to everything, gave her money for alcohol, basically anything for a quiet life. I tried to put limits on her behaviour and she hated me. She was sexually active very early and I've never been sure about drugs. Through it all I made sure she knew I loved her and that my love would never be conditional.She now has a highly responsible job and has brought up two lovely daughters. Recently she told me that she is so pleased that I tried to stop her unwise behaviour and that she thinks little of her dad that he did not. Hang on in there, this too will pass.

Agree with all the posts. Have a teenager DD myself.
Re: we had a day out at Westfield shopping centre
I know they enjoy that sort of thing, but I'd try and do some bonding days out eg tea shops, walking, riding or outdoor things that are well away from sexualised images, advertisements etc, that reinforce the fact that everyone's living the glossy sexy instagram lifestyle.

Just have to challenge the girls on the pill comment.

My DD was on the pill from age 14 just about to turn 15 because her periods were coming every 10 days and were so heavy that a super tampon (she couldn't wear a super plus) and a night towel was lasting her an hour. She was anaemic and exhausted.

So please, don't judge the girl on the pill in a negative way. It might be for a non-sex reason.

have you up parental restrictions on her iPhone? You can set it up so it will only work on your wifi and on her cellular If not you should. I'd approach this as you have lost trust in her and that she needs to earn it back.

Sorry - haven't read the full thread yet - but everyone saying change password/turn off WiFi ...if they have a smartphone with data they will use that.
I blocked DD's laptop wifi access at 11pm - (you can block different devices on our router ) - she (supposedly) has her phone till midnight.
Somehow she has got round the laptop block ...I knew she was trying as I found her following instructions on her phone with the black screen (can't remember what it is called - the prompt thing) up on her laptop... I don't think that worked as according to the router no new devices connected - I think now she might be using her phone to tether the WiFi through - if I turn the WiFi off on her phone she racks up her mobile data usage...if she goes over her limit she pays for it.
(A bit different she is 16 - so has more privacy and I don't have worries about sex or drugs etc - and her mobile data and the router has parental controls on them - although she could have got round them too I guess...)
DD has ADHD and I went on a parenting teens with ADHD workshop - apparently they are like normal teens but 10x worse.
Things that are really useful are not to shout/get cross - talk to them about their behaviour and how that makes you feel - why you are concerned. What they think the solution might be.
I feel very hurt and disappointed you lied to me and your dad about the sleepover. Also very worried - it could have gone badly wrong. And what if there had been an emergency or you went missing - we wouldn't have know where you were, might not have relaised you were missing for hours. If the house caught fire we wouldn't have known you were in there.

I am wondering if you are sexually active and that makes me worry for you. If you are there a couple of things you need to think about. Pregnancy, STDS etc but also how it makes you feel about yourself - are you completely comfortable with it and also if you aren't ready whether you will regret it when you are older.
And then listen to what they have to say - even if it is nonsense -let them say what they think - then work on a compromise.
That goes for sexy selfies - how they could be past round the school, might surface in the future - be used against them.
That you think teens nowadays have it tough - if they did anything silly it might end up as a video on youtube etc - it could viral - ruin their life. (I talk about that girl at a festival in Ireland who was filmed giving several men blow jobs - how that made her dad and the rest of her family (grandparents) feel, how it made her feel, how that could affect her future. - I also point out how sexist it is that she was vilified but not the blokes.)

School is all about her- she is trying hard for herself - to give herself choices etc...the best chance in life.
At the end of the day it is her life - all you want to do is to help and support her the best way you can.
Also for things like giving you her phone at night - discuss a reasonable time, and a consequence if that doesn't happen - and get her to sign a contract - put it in writing. So she can't say that isn't what we agreed etc...
Good luck ...teens are hard work. I was an absolute nightmare - my parents punishing me and telling me off etc made me worse, made me rebel and do even stupider things. I felt they just wanted to control me - and as a result not only did they lose control but I was out of control of myself...
(I have been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult - which explains a lot!)

Sorry - haven't read the full thread yet - but everyone saying change password/turn off WiFi ...if they have a smartphone with data they will use that.

You can stop tethering easily enough. There are also parental control apps for iOS devices such as iPhones that you can easily set up to limit the times when your child can use their devises. I'm sure there will be similar for android devises.

My kids are adults so I don't have any particular recommendations but a two minute google pulls up lots of options E.G. HERE.

My D.C. Didn't have smart phones until they were older but I wouldn't have let them have free access to the internet. Especially if they had given me reason to worry. With my D.C. I had parental controls set up on their computers that meant I could view their browsing history and they were unable to delete it. When we have the D.C. their computers we told them that us being able to access their search history was a condition of them having the new shiny computer - they all agreed to it.

I've had another quick look and Kidslock app looks good. You can get it for iOS and android.

Even if you don't mind your teen having free access to the internet but you could just use it to restrict the time they are allowed to use it.

Why wouldn't you?

Sorry for crappy English

I think the most worrying thing in all you've related is the thong.

Hello - can I slightly detail here. DD is currently under assessment by CAMHS crisis team. I am sure that the (cheap, crappy) smartphone is in part to blame even tho I do limit screen time. What cheap 'bricks' do you recommend?

here -that looks helpful for younger children.

I'm trying not to restrict my DD too much - she is 16 now ...I am trying to get her to learn how to manage her own behaviour - control her own smartphone use ...(the biggest reason I wanted to limit her laptop use was cos she takes it to bed and has a high bed...worried about her falling asleep and it falling off...)
And a little different - she is oppositional (ADHD trait) - so it is a fine line between 'ordering' - forcing - her to do something which will make her determined not to and encouraging her to do the best thing for herself... (She would harm herself before doing something she felt she was being forced to...and then regret it and know she had been stupid )

She is learning she can't be up on a device all night and get to school on time the next day etc...and still feel ok. It is a slow process but is working - she is starting to make the right decisions for herself.

But my point is that (especially with help from the internet -DD is not particularly technology savvy) they are very good at getting round things - I suspect there will be a way round those apps...
I know someone who had Netnanny (?) - some way of monitoring what they did on the internet - and her tech savvy DS at 13 had got round it - and sneakily so they didn't know they had!
Also I suspected DD had got round the control on her laptop a while ago...(she had forgotten the time and was using it at 11.10 one night) but she pretended she hadn't, turning it off at 11 etc - and asking when I was going to trust her enough to take the block off. Then I caught her out and she admitted it...
You do need some control and restrictions etc - but you also need to get them to do things for themselves...work with them.

I don't have any answers on this OP but believe me you're not alone.

My eldest DD now 15 has been extremely hard work since she was 13 or so. I have removed phones, changed wifi passwords, grounded her, tried compromising etc etc but at times I have been at the end of my tether.

All I can suggest is talking to her and try to keep dialogue going. It's really difficult, especially when they can be so rude. I don't recognise my daughter sometimes, she's so nasty but then her lovely self comes back.

I have had to learn to pick my battles but I have put strict rules in place re phones/wifi access. I'd also check the apps on her phone as I have found 'secret' social media apps hidden behind innocent looking icons for calculators etc.

unlucky83

I understand that the type of apps such as the one I linked for are primarily for younger kids but they are useful for teens too. You can choose just to use the time restrictions in them. I agree that at 16 it becomes trickier and thst you need to let the DC be responsible for their own decisions but even so I think it's reasonable to enforce some restrictions especially if a child/teen has flouted the household rules.

You always hear about tech savvy kids circumventing their parents parental restrictions but if you do it properly it's highly unlikely they can.

It's far more likely that the parents have failed to set things up properly.

I know they will be some who will claim they can 'hack' into Apples 'restrictions' but 99.99% of teens won't be able to UNLESS they get hold of the passcode or your fingerprint.

I actually think it's more important to have some control over your teens online activities than younger children. Younger children are more likely to be content with watching a kazillion kitten videos and playing endless minecraft whereas teens are more inquisitive and more likely to end up doing or seeing things that are inappropriate.

I like agreeing 'rules' before getting my kids things. All of my Dc would have happily agreed to a reasonable night time ban on internet/phone use if offered a shiny new phone. I used to get my DC to tell me what they thought was reasonable.

Asking for phones to be left downstairs etc after bedtime seems like more hassle than just setting up some parental restrictions.

Sorry, I'm derailing.

Op do you ever check your dds phone/social media accounts? Just a thought but maybe if you're able to read messages/see pics you'll have a better idea about what went on at the sleepover etc? Also she's clearly finding ways around the no phone/internet ban so maybe allow her them but with more transparency - she has to hand them in at a certain time each night with passwords so you can check them if you feel necessary etc