To go ape about all this (re dd, almost 14)

[SaltySeaDog72]

dd1 turns 14 on Monday. Addicted to Smart phone. Very deceptive, smuggles devices into her room late at night sometimes despite rules and consequences. Socially very confident. Two inches taller than me. Blond and leggy. Academic self esteem not good ever (dyslexic) in lower groups, she is capable of being in higher groups but never puts in enough effort to demonstrate that.

Am a LP for last 4 years. ExH 1 mile away, contact in place EoW plus 1 evening in the week and all stable. Works well. Her 12yo sister is ASD and has problems with anxiety which makes evenings quite difficult. dd1 is oblivious to this, am just adding context.

Was really in need of getting away last month and finally managed to get away for 3 nights. Came back to find house trashed and clearly dd1 had stayed over unsupervised with friends, she told her dad she slept at a friend's house elsewhere. There was a huge bag of rubbish in the middle of the living room (full of Easter egg boxes, MacDonald's) several 2l bottles of Fanta and coke (open) left lying around, spillages, tablets (as in medication) of unknown source on floor, furniture moved around, pictures moved. Blah blah. dd1 said 'I did tidy up'. Was really shocked to come home to this. dd1 birthday sleepover cancelled. No sleepovers for the foreseeable. Decided not to go completely mental due to no boys or drugs/alcohol but had a conversation about it being very irresponsible and not appropriate.

After this dd1 that same week I caught dd1 with an old smart phone in her room at 23:30h. Phone removed for 24hrs as per normal. Very pissed off she did this just days after being punished for secret sleepover.

The following week am in the bathroom and shocked to find underneath a towel dd1 has tried to wash a sexy thong, pink undies with tassels. Revolting things. In a bit of a state. Tell her off and she said a friend leant them to her. Said 'do you think these are appropriate for a 13 yo girl? She says no. Told her never to have them in the house again.

We have had a few chats about how superficial she is with homework and she got upset about being in lower groups. I told her I feel I am having to parent her like a toddler by making sure old smart phones etc are hidden from her and I feel he behaviour is not mature and she should start spending some time on her work to balance things out if she wants to move up groups at school. She looks contrite but says 'yes' but now it's the end of term.

FFWD to yesterday I collect her from a party at her friend's and there are two boys there. Am waiting on the door step for dd1 to put shoes on. One of the boys mentions 'dd1 it's your birthday on Monday, what are you doing' and says, laughing 'can we sleep at your house again'

So in the car I said to her. He slept over that weekend didn't he. Cue dd1 getting all angry, first denying it then saying 'he only stayed til midnight' it's clear at least one boy and maybe others were at my house sleeping over with no adult present. She then sat in the. She then sat in car saying nothing so I removed phone and sent her to bed. Have since seen evident she has been online at 23:46 last night despite phone being removed. Dunno how she has done that. I have lost control of this kid.

Am livid at the disrespect and the not giving a shit and the bahaving like she is 16.

I have tried to not go ape with her but am now at the end of my rope. Meeting up with her dad today to discuss what to do.

She is going to football match with her grandad today and I was thinking of cancelling but it's with family so don't know. AIBU to remove her iPhone4 and replace it with a crap phone with no internet? AIBU to cancel birthday shopping trip?

I think you are being too lenient (assuming you intend to follow MN advice). Unsupervised sleepovers with boys and sexy underwear? She is 13. She may be having sex. If you are lucky, your daughter is having underage sex. If you are unlucky (and she is even more irresponsible than she sounds) your daughter is having unprotected sex.

Remove the phone. Give a brick for emergencies. Remove privileges until she earns back trust.

'Lovebombing' needs to happen under cover of darkness, as it were. She needs to be in no doubt that you love her, but this must not look like cowed mummy rewarding her for her - frankly shocking - behaviour.

lovely actually

^ this!

This is why you are a brilliant mum. You will find the way. Must be very hard for you with DD2 but hard for DD1 too.

Remember the positive and celebrate it. You have a lovely, charming daughter who can talk to you. You are well ahead of the game!

Phones would be gone for a month in my house, and she would no longer be trusted to be alone.
When Dd 12 tries it on with us, the first thing to go is the phone and ipad. She has spent a month without in the past.
We have also talked about trust, and how once it's gone, she will have to prove to us we can trust her again and how hard it is once you feel betrayed.
Her birthday would not include any parties, she has killed that idea by trashing the house. The sexy undies would be in he bin, I don't care whose they are, if her friend wanted them she can come and ask me. I will then take them for her mother to see if she asks.
Her father needs to not allow any sleepvers with friends seeing she broke his trust too. Actually I think sleepovers would be off the table for the foreseeable future.
I'm not the strictest parent I know, but I'm not a walkover, I have had teens before which my Dd seems to forget. I do remind her she's not the only child. I'm also not her friend I'm her parent, I'm not interested in whether she likes me, my job is to get her to adulthood, in one piece, and healthy, and to protect her from her own stupidity which comes naturally as a young teen.

You do need some alone time with her. Definitely get your ex to have dd2 separately. And vis versa if possible depending on how much of a good role model he is. I have read that girls go looking for boys and "love" to fill in the gap left by an absent or unavailable father. So the way for her to turn back to looking after herself and her studies would ideally involve an engaged father. EoW plus one evening isn't much with her father when she was living with him 4 years ago.

She's 14 years old. Your exH shouldn't have just taken her word for her staying at her friend's. That's ridiculous. Did he not think to phone the parents of that friend to actually check? He didn't take care of her that weekend - she could have gone anywhere. Where is the safeguarding there?

I wouldn't cancel a supervised trip out to the football with family. Just make sure grandad is fully on board with not letting her go off somewhere.

I think the underwear issue could have been handled better. Telling her never to have them in the house again - it suggests you don't want to discuss it with her, you just want to blank it out. She probably feels ashamed - I'm not sure that's great for her self esteem.

Do you have any good times together or are you both permanently at loggerheads? I would strongly advise against constantly being angry at her. The punishment is losing out on certain privileges and time with friends - it's not losing your love or respect. There is an awful lot of disdain in your post and I just wonder whether that carries through to your interactions with your daughter.

I agree about being the person she can talk to - if she can't talk to you who can she talk to? That doesn't mean she can do anything she wants and you won't bat an eyelid - it's about being supportive and protective (in a good way).

As another PP mentioned, I had similar experiences at her age. I spent a lot of time deceiving my parents and having inappropriate relationships with men. At the time I thought I was a grown up and I could handle it. I couldn't talk to my parents. My mum had an inkling what was going on but she never tried to understand how I was feeling or what was going on. She was angry at me all the time and I've never been able to tell her anything. Sometimes she brings it up out of the blue, I don't know why, but it's obvious she's angry at me. My dad once spoke about "forgiving" me for everything I did wrong. To be a child and have all the blame levelled at you is very hard and can make you feel very ashamed.

Trifle the underwear was found after As was the boys @ sleepover. I understood it to be 2 girlfriends. I looked at the amount of rubbish and took this to be true. Turns out not.

What were the tablets on the floor?

Turn your internet off at night. At 9pm. I know you can't use it but after a couple of nights you can turn it back on.

You sound like a great mum - I hope this situation improves for you and your DD.

It might be worth just considering how much time you spend listening to her. Do you know what she wants from life / this week / the summer holidays? Making sure you know where her (probably half formed) thoughts are heading will make it easier for her to engage with you, which may help build her self esteem.

P.S. on the devices after dark point, the easiest way is to just disable the wifi after a certain time and turn it back on in the morning, then it doesn't matter whether she has a phone or not.

But you didn't check or discuss the sleepover with her. It seems there is not much talking in your household. Just assumptions that it was girls. Tell her to get rid of the underwear. Sitting down and talking about boundaries and setting family rules and consequences seems to be missing.

Did no one else go off the rails at 13? Just me? The op has said that her dd can talk to her about sex. I think its unlikely that dd is doing anything or the boy would not have been mouthing off about staying. I don't think massive punishments are going to help. More likely to alienate.

What I mean by tell her to get rid of the underwear, I mean you didn't talk about that either, just told her to get rid.

Blimey she's very young for all this, year 9? I'd be cross if it was my DD and she's 16. Prob about the lies more than anything as I hate lying and my DD can be very devious.

Mummy what do you mean I didn't check or discuss the sleepover? It was her Dad's job. She was with him that weekend.

I could have handled the underwear thing better but I am exhausted atm and we were just about to leave for work/school..

The influence of her dad. Mmmmmm... he is good in some ways but lazy. And doesn't really engage beyond the superficial.

I do not think she is being exploited by these boys. No gifts. They are the same age. Same school. We talk about sex. We need to discuss sex and safety again in light of the info about boys at this sleepover.

Def Switch off Wi-Fi and make sure all devices are inaccessible. I think you need time together just the two of you.
I do sympathize. My dd is 13 and totally different to yours - very young, quiet. However, she doesn't talk to me about stuff and I find that very hard and wish she'd open up.
Could you be frank about the potential consequences of what she is doing?

SummerHouse
The way I was parented was pretty abysmal. My father was hardly ever around even though my parents were together. I didn't go off the rails as such. No. I did go through a very difficult time. Had sex and was dumped at 15 by a boy, who I thought would help me escape my home life and finally saw a future. Depression resulted and I was often drunk and was down the pub every week at 16. I think I was close to nervous breakdown as I would sit at the end of my bed not moving for hours every day. My experience was different because I didn't act out in the same way. But I was very very lost. Now in my 40's, I don't see that as going off the rails, i see this as a reaction to piss poor parenting.

The underwear really caught my attention, especially with the constant need to be on her phone and coupled with the low self esteem. I hope she isn't being coerced into taking sexualised selfies of herself?

Can you look through her phone?

Also the unknown medication strewn over the floor after the sleepover, that's also a HUGE red flag. For obvious reasons...

With regards to spending time with her I think that needs to be more on a regular basis - maybe once a week? (I appreciate you have a great deal on your plate right now)

I would encourage the day out with her grandad. I would also remove the smart phone completely. Maybe get one of those call/text only ones?

Do you think i am a piss poor parent Mummyof ?

Salty
I mean discussion after the event. I don't see much talking in your household: Expectations, family rules etc. Is that how it is, not much time to talk?

You and ex H are far too lax with her, you need to actually punish her.

I'm talking about my parenting, not yours. It was a response to SummerHouse. I can't imagine you're anything like my mother. She never ever questioned her parenting. You are looking for help, which is great.

zzzz I do supervise homework. I ask to see it and ask her to add stuff.

potatosalad

My parents are exactly the same. I fell in with a grooming gang and my parents where none the wiser. I resent them so much for not realising. They still refer back to that period of time as me being a "difficult teen" when I was actually being abused and controlled by grown men. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it.

Op I would talk to her about why she feels like she wants to wear sexy underwear and not just say not to have them in the house. I think just telling her off may make her feel dirty or ashamed about having them- which itself isn't something naughty- just a bit of a concern that she's doing this at such a young age.

There's a really wide spectrum of normal teenage behaviour at this age, but the lying and deception is concerning.

Sounds like you are a really good mum op. Just keep communication open and turn off the wifi.

I was like this at 14 - I also did exactly what your daughter did and had a party when I was meant to be staying elsewhere and my mum was away.

stay calm as being angry doesn't work - but do be really firm.

She can't be trusted now so just accept you made a mistake in letting her go out for sleepovers at all, she obviously isn't mature enough to make sensible decisions.

re. the phone - I would agree it's very worrying that she is online/ using phones when you have confiscated them. Have you taken her out, calmly, and when having some peaceful time actually takled through with her why she shouldn't be on a phone late at night etc?

Who is giving her phones/ sexy underwear? girls don't lend each other knickers - I would presume if she cares about her underwear that she is having sex/ behaving sexually with boys. Lots of girls do at 14 so don't be naive about that.

I would just decide she can't be trusted and ensure she has no chances to make stupid decisions. We are all pretty dumb at that age - you need to protect her from herself.

I actually think the sleepover was pretty bad behaviour, especially not caring about mess etc - and I was very badly behaved teen myself.