To think Gibraltar should just be repatriated to Spain

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Sorry couldn't find a thread on this, but shouldn't it just be part of Spain? It's a bit ridiculous that it's causing such tension. As someone Spanish said it's like Spain owing Penzance, people would not be happy with that.

There was no real choice but to hand back HK. The People's Army could have strolled in at any time.

The "lease ran out" business was just to save face.

This was entirely predictable along with the tricky NI border issues. Gibraltarians presumably voted massively in favour of remaining because they anticipated this very thing.

I don't think we can just 'give back' / cut loose places such as Gib and The Falklands where the populations want to stay British as some people suggest. But leaving the EU is going to open up cans of worms with every country who has a bone to pick with the UK.

We will need to join international organisations as an individual member once we leave the EU. This usually requires a unanimous entry vote from all the other members. If the Argentinian government decide it's politically expedient for them to reopen the Falklands issue, then we can expect to be blocked. Same is true for any tiny place in the world which has a bone to pick- they have just been given a huge amount of leverage. Gib and NI could be the tip of the iceberg.

Hong Kong The New Territories which was on a 99 year lease is by far the largest part of HK and supports a huge population. The Island and Kowloon are tiny. It's not just a bit of empty land around the border. HK's water supply comes mostly from China. They wouldn't have had to send in the army, they would have just turned the taps off. Keeping a bit of HK was never a realistic option and I don't believe was ever taken seriously by the locals, many of whom did not dispute the handover. I agree they should have been granted British passports, not second class BNO ones.

BTW, I live in HK - in the New Territories.

Apparently there was discussion in the Civil Service about offering to resettle HK residents in Northern Ireland.

You don't just get to have a territory because it is next to your country. Unless your name is Hitler

The Spanish foreign minister has said that they will not veto a Scottish application to the EU. I seem to remember reading that representatives of the Scottish government have been making trips to Madrid recently.
Perhaps discovering that they may have common cause?

Oh what a tangled web has been spun!

I keep hoping I'll wake up one morning and it will turn up it's all been a bad dream.

One of the many issues that leave voters either seemed to be unaware of or just not give a toss about.

all the commonwealth countries?

Does any 2nd generation citizen of a Commonwealth country regard themselves as British? I thought that attitude would have disappeared at least fifty years ago.

OP if you don't live in Gibralter, frankly who cares what you think.

AFAIK, Gibraltar is not fully in the EU anyway. It is not in the customs union, hence the border controls in place already.

You have to be joking, these people are british, if we can fight for THE FALKLANDS which are thousands of miles away we had better fight fot Gibraltar since 1700's. What the EU have done is disgusting, we should be disgusted to slip in to the reply to article 50 that basically the 27 nations are going to give Spain the veto on any deal is horrendous, talk about being stabbed in the back. Were being treated terribly. May had better not lose the place back to Spain ,we never ever should of removed the military presence from there.
The Spanish royal family are cousins to our Queen Surely they could get this stopped, It was British prior the EU ever existing, so to say it cannot be considered British once we leave is mind boggling.

Give it a rest caz. Most people didn't know where either the Falklands or Gibraltar are until a crisis blew up - both of which blew up periodically. At least one poster on these threads was talking about the island of Gibraltar. So let's cut out the pretence that all bar a few people either know or care. It was utterly predictable that Spain would stick its oar in - something which May and her stooges should have been aware of.

I must say, the EU seems to be showing an awful lot of interest in strategic military spots like the Crimea and Gibraltar for a 'peace project'.

It was utterly predictable that Spain would stick its oar in - something which May and her stooges should have been aware of.
Not to mention Leave voters, when this issue was repeatedly brought up during the Referendum campaign, who are now expressing outrage and surprise that what they were told would happen is, in fact, happening.

Spain wants Gibraltar and will oppose any deal with the UK that doesn't include ending it's association with Gibraltar. They have made that very clear since before the referendum; the forgein minister said they would begin talks the very next day in the event of a brexit vote. Gibraltar does not want to governed by Spain either solely or jointly with the UK; the referendum in 2002 was 98% against joint Spain-UK sovereignty, with an 87% turn-out.
Would Gibraltar go for independence? They already have their own government, tax system, legal system, currency. They have one of the world's highest GDPs per capita. They could stay in the EU and be supported by it as a member state, they did vote 96% to remain. But I believe they would rather be out of the EU with the UK than in it with Spain, if they could not be independent.

Mangosteen We are in NATO and the UN, arguably the two biggies, as the UK, not as part of the EU. I don't think we'll be kicked out of the Commonwealth once Brexit happens either.

BillSykesDog They did really well in the Ukraine didn't they?

No the Spanish do not get to keep Gibraltar just because they want it; it belongs to the UK.

I can't believe anyone would suggest any different to be honest.

It's only part of the bigger picture. The EU bullies have shown themselves in their true colours which is why I voted out. If you leave our gang we will make you suffer. If you get beaten up then no-one else will leave. We are well out of this ghastly institution.

Well, yes Scary, but I wouldn't want to go the whole hog sending in the tanks and invading Marbella.

But I think it's pretty fair to say that situation in the Ukraine wouldn't have happened if the EU hadn't been quiteso determined to see a pro EU government in Kiev regardless of what Ukrainians wanted.

Mummy why does no-one ever remember about the Canaries?!

Because people think they are in the Mediterranean.

Would Gibraltar go for independence?

The current treaties don't allow it, but new treaties can be drawn up if the will is there. Given that May couldn't even be bothered to mention it in her letter, you have to wonder, how much will exists.

Peregrina I suppose both the UK and Spain would have to formally "give it up"? I wonder if the Gibraltarians would like that - perhaps if they were allowed to keep British citizenship? It could be the lesser of many evils for them, probably still a headache for Spain though.

Peregrina, youre utterly out if step with reality. Gibraltans wish, overwhelmingly to be British. They have their own Parliament, (which caused my first bemusement when you posted way back about Gibraltan MPs in Westminster being Tory. They dont have MPs in Westminster), and their representation in the UK via the APPG which is a collection of cross party MPs. Those MPs working within the APPG are however, obligated to vote first and foremost in the best interests of their own constituents. Their input into the APPG is and can only be advisory.

Perhaps this will help a little understanding. Its written by Lindsay Hoyle. (Labour)

www.newstatesman.com/gibraltar/newstatesman-gibraltar/2014/04/gibraltar-s-voice-westminster