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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think Gibraltar should just be repatriated to Spain

173 replies

brexitstolemyfuture · 01/04/2017 13:01

Sorry couldn't find a thread on this, but shouldn't it just be part of Spain? It's a bit ridiculous that it's causing such tension. As someone Spanish said it's like Spain owing Penzance, people would not be happy with that.

OP posts:
yellow6 · 01/04/2017 13:44

The folk of Gibraltar need to decide if they want to remain in the EU or as an overseas UK territory. They can't have both. why not? lots of countries have borders with other countries does not mean they have a right to the land

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 13:45

Northern Ireland
Europol
EU Nationals
Gibraltar
Security
Hard Brexit
Soft Brexit
Customs Union

So many areas to discuss

InvisibleKittenAttack · 01/04/2017 13:47

Yep, Spain should be careful what it wishes for...

If there's another vote for the Gabraltains post Brexit and they decide they want to become part of Spain (and therefore part of the EU), that would be a different matter, but you don't just get to overrule what the population want and give away their home.

Sunnymeg · 01/04/2017 13:48

A legally binding treaty was signed in 1713 giving the UK {Great Britain} , Gibraltar in perpetuity. That is the end of the matter.

VladmirsPoutine · 01/04/2017 13:50

yellow6 You are failing to understand that comment. Yes lots of countries have borders but that's not the point here. In fact mainland Europe is essentially what you've described. However, most (if not all) of Gibraltar's population voted to stay in the EU, and most (if not all) of their population wanted to remain a UK territory. Now that the UK is leaving the EU - Gibraltar cannot have it's cake and eat it, as it were - remain a UK territory whilst enjoying the benefits of EU membership. They will have to decide. The EU's primary concern is now Spain because Spain happens to be a member of the EU.

pombal · 01/04/2017 13:50

I was in Gibraltar recently and the locals really seemed opposed to this.

Obsidian77 · 01/04/2017 13:50

What are your thoughts on Ceuta, Melilla and the Canaries op?

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 13:51

that would be a different matter, but you don't just get to overrule what the population want and give away their home

Except the people of Gibraltar did decided to stay in the EU in the referendum.

And they also wanted to stay as a British Overseas territory in 2013.

But the UK voted to leave the EU.

Umm. Another country / place where the population voted to stay as part of the bigger union but also voted to stay in the EU.

It's a mess.

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 13:53

The EU's primary concern is now Spain because Spain happens to be a member of the EU

The EU doesn't really care too much about the UK now. Who can blame them?

And poor Gibraltar. Voted to stay a sovereign territory and voted to stay in the EU.

ClaryBeanHorshAndMe · 01/04/2017 13:53

I think it depends on what the people living there want...

Rosieandtim · 01/04/2017 13:53

You "couldn't find a thread", so started 2?

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 13:57

I think it depends on what the people living there want

If the EU offers decent trade arrangements in return for Gibraltar being handed back?

How important is Gibraltar to the UK? (Apart from it being a very handy naval base controlling access to the Med)

Crumbs1 · 01/04/2017 13:58

It's not going to happen because of its strategic location for naval operations.

VladmirsPoutine · 01/04/2017 13:59

Rosieandtim What a thoughtful contribution. Sometimes when a thread is created it doesn't display so it's quite easy to create threads twice, much in the same way it is to post the same comment twice by refreshing for example. Hmm

VladmirsPoutine · 01/04/2017 14:03

Back to the thread. A lot of people are saying it was a massive error / oversight on Theresa May's part to leave out any talk of Gibraltar in her A50 letter. Either way, Gibraltar was always going to be a huge bargaining chip. I think it was the arrogance of the Leaver's that thought the EU would continue to behave as a meek puppy towards UK demands. They're going to play hardball. And they've basically got us over a barrel and it hasn't even been a week yet since A50.

ClaryBeanHorshAndMe · 01/04/2017 14:03

How important is Gibraltar to the UK?

Idk, I'm not from the UK...

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 14:09

I really hope there's a team somewhere advising the PM and her team on all the issues and the 'cards' that the EU hold. I am sure there is - and Gibraltar should not have been a surprise to them.

And this is only week 1.

JeNeSuisPasVotreMiel · 01/04/2017 14:12

Sunnymeg that's a fascinatingly arcane standpoint. So are you saying that all constitional laws and land agreements made since the early 1700s should stand because...actually because what exactly?

It would be a strange world indeed if no laws made for the last 300 years could be challenged...

VladmirsPoutine · 01/04/2017 14:18

Thing is ego this whole situation screams of shot-gun reactionism. There was zero plan in place from the get-go (but we probably debated that to death back then). It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

I'm not a remoaner and in many ways look forward to see how they UK will navigate it's way through this.

That said, I think whilst the UK is currently engaging in some very stoic posturing - the EU is showing that it won't be pushed over. Tusk has said that the EU won't engage in any negotiation until the process is fully underway and there will be no parallel talks regarding carving up the 4 freedoms.

InvisibleKittenAttack · 01/04/2017 14:26

Of course there was no plan in place, but that's from both sides, the EU are busy scrambling too to work out what positions they want to take. Noone actually thought the UK would vote leave. There's nothing been put in place, because it was such a shock to everyone.

I can't see Gibraltar being all that important to the bulk of the EU for it to be a bargaining chip. It's only Spain who wants it, and it would be a worrying precedent of ignoring an overwelming referendum result.

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 14:26

It's a massive game of poker - but that's a crap metaphor as in poker, you have winners and losers.

Maybe it should be likened to a game where there are no losers but everyone gets mostly what they want.

Peregrina · 01/04/2017 14:26

Pretty disgusted that, as with NI, the government has shown that they couldn't care less.

No Gibraltar votes in Westminster for the Tory party, is one reason. The Tories only wake up to NI issues when as now, their majority is slender and they need DUP votes.

Gallavich · 01/04/2017 14:26

What the fuck is wrong with being a remoaner anyway? I will moan if I bloody want to.
Gibraltar kind of relies on Spanish workers - there aren't enough people there to function without Spanish. The Spanish population nearby also need Gibraltar's employment opportunities; la linea and san roque etc are poor and run down towns.
I was in Gibraltar recently and walked through the border 4 times in a few hours. It's barely monitored. Wave a British or Spanish passport at the sole police officer on duty and they barely glance up. If a proper border goes up it will grind the whole rock to nothing.

scaryteacher · 01/04/2017 14:28

Itsall There is a hard border there which is regularly closed when the Spanish get pissed off about something. My parents were posted there when the border was infrequently opened, and it is doable.

scaryteacher · 01/04/2017 14:36

Gallavich The border is monitored when Spain gets the hump with something, as my friends who are posted there tell me. Funny how Gib coped before the border softened.
It's a military base which helps control the mouth of the Med. We wouldn't have kept it if there was no mileage in doing so.