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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that if working full time still equal grinding humiliating poverty then crime is not only to be expected, it is to be welcomed as a sensible career choice.

239 replies

scaryclown · 31/03/2017 02:53

I.e. when conforming perfectly to the system gets you nothing at all, then it is your duty to take things from the system..
?

OP posts:
squishysquirmy · 31/03/2017 14:08

"It's still fascinating that people are adding so much....."
".....might feel more comfortable with thinking that it's fantasy that anyone anywhere would act in any other way than to completely align with overal company goals, just like it's comforting to believe in the Easter bunny, or that the Aristocracy are benign guardians of a fair and just society."

You are putting words into our mouths.
I think the vast majority on here would agree that society can be unfair, and that it can be hard to get out of poverty, and that many people have an unfair advantage in life. Plenty of people on here have tried to help with practical suggestion, and many of us have empathy with your situation.

What is concerning is that you are talking about how stealing from, and even killing, those who have more money than you would be justified. That IS NOT THE SAME as saying that being angry at injustice is wrong. Nor is it the same as denying that there is injustice in the world.

Your ideas are not as original as you think they are. It has been tried before, and generally speaking either anarchy and violence occurs (which is shit for the average person, btw) or the super rich are replaced by a new gang of super rich, and society is no more just than before, but have become more accustomed to bloodshed and violence.

OfaFrenchmind2 · 31/03/2017 14:09

I am not your friend, councellor or anybody beholden to you. All I see is somebody that thinks their life is shit and is considering making it even shittier for plenty of other people.

scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:10

Yes i do think poor people often ponder lots of poor folk dying. Mentioned above re Africa, lots of 'muslims /immigrants die" stuff, plenty of 'I'll murder you' hate mail on internet, and hundreds of thousands of murders in the most inequitable countries in the world..

OP posts:
KingBob · 31/03/2017 14:14

You sound like the bitter employee blaming everybody else for their misfortunes and cannot take a look inward. And paranoid.

^ This. So much. Like I said upthread OP, why do you feel like the word owes you something? Or that other people should somehow fund you and your poor lifestyle choices? Only you can change things.

Basically saying 'It's the rich people's fault I'm poor, let's kill them all and steal their cash!' does sound a tad unhinged.

scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:23

I just feel that if you work hard with integrity you should be able to eat and pay bills at the very least, if not actually enjoy life a bit. Having to do what i did last night is wait around after midnight to buy food after two weeks on old pasta, bread and beans only, only to find wages not gone in, then buying loaf of bread with 40p found around back of sofa, knowing that homeless folk ask for £1 or 50p and it's more than i have had for the last week..Whilst doing 30 hours a week for major brand... That's awful no?

OP posts:
scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:24

The joke is, i"m quite intolerant to bread as i don't eat it usually so my low budget solution has left me feeling ill...

OP posts:
shovetheholly · 31/03/2017 14:31

I'm serious, if you want a master key to what is going wrong with your life, you need to read a good introduction to Marx.

Goldfishjane · 31/03/2017 14:33

OP you mentioned being hassled for money but you've still not said why - is it debt?

if it's debt, there is help available.

many posters on here have managed on minimum wage for years without going hungry - I'm a bit concerned that there is another factor that is causing you to be "aggressed" I think you said, for money?

Also could you get a referral to a food bank if you are unable to meet the cost of 3 meals a day?

scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:33

I do find it curious that some people are almost physically incapable of believing that poverty exist because it's not their experience. Even my dad who was very poor in his youth and who lost his job at age 40 and was unemployed for three years acts as though i am making up my version of almost the same story. It's like something happens to your brain that blots out any ability to understand poverty ..And sort of goes numb. I wonder if there's any cognitive science research about this? Maybe all animals block out periods of hardship like they do other trauma?

OP posts:
KingBob · 31/03/2017 14:37

But why is it everyone else's fault? (Other than work last night for your wages not being paid obvs)

You haven't answered a lot of people's questions about your circumstances, i.e how much you earn, outgoings, debts, DP, kids. I suspect that's because you will probably be told to manage your money better, do more hours, look for a new job etc but it's just easier for you to blame everyone else.

scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:37

No..I've discovered that when you are poor every agency wants your money earlier than the others so every agency are much more aggressive in making sure you pay, council tax, power companies, banks, mobile phone companies etc etc etc..I used to be able to say 'can i delay till next month?' when i was on 24k.. now they all refuse, or ask for money in advance. I do have some debt too..But that would be cleared with a good salary. Again that amazes me..Why banks expect their money back whilst also acting to take all the spare money out of the economy mystifies me..

OP posts:
Goldfishjane · 31/03/2017 14:38

scary "I do find it curious that some people are almost physically incapable of believing that poverty exist because it's not their experience."

agree.

now as I was saying...many of us on MN have lived hand to mouth, do still, or remember it clearly - do you need links to agencies that can help? If you just want to rant, I'll be off....

Goldfishjane · 31/03/2017 14:39

oh and if it's a big brand retail firm who hasn't paid on time I have a feeling that's the second time this year....hopefully there is a union that can help with that but it does give me the rage.

Instasista · 31/03/2017 14:40

We all know poverty exists.

Poverty in the U.K. Is not relying on food banks one week in every 4. In the U.K. That means something else is going on.

Poverty is actually a lot more money than you refer to

scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:41

Ok, I've had a charity look at my budgets and they say it's too tight too. Last month my employer underpaid me, they forgot my holiday, the month before they miscalculated my clock in, the month prior they didn't put my additional shifts through, the month before that i was paid for day work not night work... And I've been applying for 100+ jobs a week for five weeks...

OP posts:
Instasista · 31/03/2017 14:42

Oh and I don't think anyone can seriously think you plan to murder people

Instasista · 31/03/2017 14:43

You've applied for more than 500 jobs and not got them? Have they said why?

Again this is all so abnormal

scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:45

I know Grin i cant afford the knife..

But the serious point is that should people really be so stressed that they are holding down the thought that soon they are going to have to take stuff from other people to survive even when they are fitter, healthier, more intelligent and more hard working than average..It's kind of bonkers...

OP posts:
scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:50

It's not 'they' it's the numbers game of applications these days... It's possible to make so many..And it's possible for everyone to make so many that you just have to...But recruiter s also have to bin thousands of applications even if people who are perfect for the job..So you can be in the 'bin' pile , statistically, for ages and ages even if you are qualified and experienced properly... Then after a while of that, the market assumed you are unemployable because they're is something wrong with you(as you have done) without realising the vast numbers game the job market has become. So they go 'oh, unemployed six months, can't be the markets fault, must be the person's unemployability. It's crazy, but that's how so many people are jepylt out of the job market. If they get angry about it...The words like 'unstable' are thrown about like up here, so then youpassively accept the shit, then you are told it's your fault for being passive...

OP posts:
scaryclown · 31/03/2017 14:52

But at the end of the day i"m working, and can't even afford a pack of broken biscuits

OP posts:
scaryclown · 31/03/2017 15:00

A positive is that I'm looking 'gaunt and unhealthy' which I'm hoping is fashionable this season...And i have found that some tops i was given by someone that were too tight are now skimming my figure nicely..So I've sort of got some new clothes..But it's still pretty grim..

OP posts:
frieda909 · 31/03/2017 15:15

scaryclown you sound incredibly unhappy Sad I'm sorry to hear things are so hard.

About a year ago I was so skint I couldn't even afford a bus fare and was wearing my feet out walking miles and miles a day to get to and from work, and living off whatever I could find in the reduced aisle at Morrisons. And I have a Masters degree, so when people say 'just get an education and you can move up in the world' I know how unhelpful that is! I now have a 'good' job but it's in a very, very poorly paid sector and even if I get promoted two or three times I'm still not going to be making enough to ever own my own house or any of that other stuff that people seem to think just magically becomes possible if you 'work hard'.

You say you've spoken to a charity, did they have any practical advice? What can people on this thread actually do to help you?

FairytalesAreBullshit · 31/03/2017 15:36

Is OP essentially trying to say, why should people work for minimum wage, when you can live life on benefits and have what is deemed to be a more prosperous life, as per various newspapers and television shows?

In which case, the logic is flawed. It's not about one demographic being better off than the other. In our house we solely get CB, DH works hard, gets an average wage, our life is comfortable. If DH worked for a lesser wage, life would still be comfortable. People with children on minimum wage, get a reasonable tax break, plus tax credits, which I believe takes your income up to a satisfactory level. Obviously there is, I believe a disparity in income between a group of workers on minimum wage, if one has one child, another has four. It would be reasonable to suggest your outgoings would reflect that, as more children means more outgoings.

What many are missing is what constitutes a good life. If you have unrealistic expectations then you'll feel hard done by. You don't need a lot of things that people measure success and quality of life by. Culture has changed so people can be very materialistic.

We won't go on holiday this year, as we didn't book quick enough, just as we didn't go away last year, only crazily priced places are left during the school holidays. Anything needed is saved for. A lot of the furniture and appliances are rather old, until they break they won't be replaced. As a family I personally put no bearing on my worth being ascribed by anything materialistic.

Happiness isn't a huge TV, with the whole Sky Package, brand new phones, designer clothes, designer anything. Or even clothes that are in fashion, or trendy, I dress how I dress, DH has his style preferences, DC get new clothes due to growing, but the eldest is pinching a lot of my vintage t-shirts. DD wears mainly pink, girly stuff, which can be found in charity shops, bundles from eBay or super markets. Food wise a shop is done monthly if that, stuff is bought in bulk, DH takes breakfast and dinner to work over going to the canteen.

We grew up the same, clothes were handed down, you made do with what you had, you ate what you were given, you had one car per family usually, you played games that cost nothing, the best things in life were usually free.

So if people stopped thinking that you need to achieve an ascribed status, with all jobs if working class you started at the bottom and worked up. If you were middle class maybe your family owned a business you'd work in, otherwise the same you start as a trainee and work up. Instead of the expectation of something higher than you were worth.

On the playground there might be parents that judge others, good for them, they can look at us how they wish, as long as the children are happy, we are happy, money has very little to do with it. That really needs drilling in to children of today. Even people who earn above average, if they follow the 'model of happiness' they'll be mortgaged to the max, with credit to buy all this stuff some perceive makes you successful. I'm glad we don't subscribe to such an ideology. You don't need a living room rammed with presents, that your children probably won't even touch, they write a Christmas list, you get what you can, the children are happy.

I don't expect everyone to think that this way of living is how it's done, but not having debt, loans, credit cards, makes life simpler. I've had similar arguments before, but even if poor you don't need to go to Brighthouse, what's wrong with second hand?

I will add being older means we have a lot of stuff collected over the years, mostly Christmas gifts of random kitchen stuff that's never used. Life was started out with the basics, distinguishing between want and need will take you a long way.

FairytalesAreBullshit · 31/03/2017 15:41

I hasten to add they are moving from a minimum wage to a living wage, but I think that will ultimately result in redundancies or goods costing more, as you can't have something dirt cheap if your staff bill from production to delivery to sales is higher.

GinAndTunic · 31/03/2017 15:47

Is OP essentially trying to say, why should people work for minimum wage, when you can live life on benefits

No. The OP is saying that if you cannot survive on your income you are justified in committing crimes.