To think that if working full time still equal grinding humiliating poverty then crime is not only to be expected, it is to be welcomed as a sensible career choice.

[scaryclown]

I.e. when conforming perfectly to the system gets you nothing at all, then it is your duty to take things from the system..
?

That's hard to understand OP why would they discipline someone they're desperate to keep? You'd just leave wouldn't you, having been treated so unfairly?

This isn't really making much sense. I can well believe you have thick as mud managers but why would you stay?

All sorts of BS like 'smiling when you saw someone bump their elbow on a shelf' or 'leaving packaging for someone else to clear up" when i was leaving it for ME to clear up, or 'smiling at someone who you should have known had had an accident' or 'being unsafe" ('why am i unsafe?, "I don't know i just get that impression") it's all very jolly and ice, but it's a way of being able to say 'whenyou"be had six months without any 'issues' work , for the poor, is just a game of balancing being kept down against the desire to machine gun everyone, in a way that just keeps you alive.

You can't leave...Ivan hardly afford to.Eat and get to work let alone travel to an interview.. that's how this whole country keeps people in jobs that are shit.

Do you work full time Scary ?
Is there a career you are interested innit don't feel you could access?

I see this is really about you personally having a really awful time. I'm sorry to hear that OP.

You might not want to do this but I suggest after venting all you want forget the unfairness of everything/ big picture solutions and concentrate your ability on making the best move for you MN can probably really help. I found the 'What Colour is your Parachute?' very good too. Best of luck.

Innit - but

Yanbu to a point

To an earlier poster nope, there is most certainly some absolute poverty in this country. Its not all relative at all.

A single mum stealing to feed her kids....no judgement from me at all. If the system wasn't so fucked up and so many feckless fathers out there she wouldn't be in that position.

Maybe we can offer some practical help here? So how old are you? What job do you do and what are your qualifications?

Do you have any practical and emotional support in rl?

Do you work regular hours? What is transport like where you are? Could you do any extra jobs e.g. Weekend shifts in care home?

It's a thought provoking discussion. And similar to those after the London riots. The thing is, the system is unfair, and the rich do take advantage of the poor. It is therefore always going to be a risk that violence will come as a reaction to that. I would never agree that violence and crime is a justified reaction though. I think there are other ways you can fight the system if you feel strongly enough. Get everyone to vote, stand up as MP, fight your cause in a political arena.

What is the proposal exactly? That we keep offenses such as fraud, theft etc as illegal acts but remove the social disapproval or that we selectively decriminalize them based on some kind of means testing? Neither makes any kind of logical sense.

Are those our only choices? How about a Citizen's Basic Income? A much more progressive tax regime? More council houses? Decent public transport? Worker representation at board level? Repeal of Tory anti-union law? Governmental transparency? Public ownership of utilities?

By and large, people in Africa are have lots of children because they are poor, they are not poor because they have lots of children - children are an economic asset (and quite an uncertain one because a lot die anyway).

The world may have given billions in "aid" to Africa (the inverted comma is because a lot of aid is not really aid at all but a boost to foriegn companies or a payment for favourable trading conditions). but this is as nothing compared to the wealth it has siphoned out of it.

So you can fuck right off with your eugenics crap.

I put a lot of effort into my appearance. I am nice to women. I date. It is hard work. But still I don't get enough sex from the women. They have all the power and won't give me more sex even after I put in so much effort. Therefore I would be justified in raping women to get sex. Society should expect it and not punish it.

Some things are wrong and no amount of personal justification makes them right.

OP " Every week there are bills and aggression for money i cant afford"

OP are you in debt? I wonder if you need an iva or bankruptcy?

OP if you're happy to disclose how much do you earn? Don't know what national minimum wage sip is i that or above? Dr used to get NMW but got working tax credits. Do you have children? As a low income family we get working and family tax credits.
Might be worth seeking some financial advice if you're genuinely unable to manage on your money

Run, I feel deeply uncomfortable with comparisons made between women, or their vagina's, and material possessions.
You can't compare human beings to money, houses, assets etc.

Bit of a strawman too...

Scary clown the stuff you are saying is quite worrying!

Do you think you are ok? Can you talk to someone in RL?

What's your job?

It seems awfully easy for them to block you. Usually companies are desperate for good people. If you are good then their competitors will snap you up. Or a manager in another department who isn't so easily threatened.

With all these spurious disciplinary proceedings you should see a solicitor. Have you challenged anything? Is there any truth in them?

It's maybe not the best comparison but I actually think RunRabbit makes a really good point.

Are those our only choices?

No, of course they are not. They are however the only choices in the context of the OP hypothesizing that crime should be welcomed as a choice for the poor.

squishy it doesn't sit quite right with me either. I have actually heard men talk like that though. You read it all over the place on the web. When I read the OP, those conversations immediately popped into my head because it felt like the same argument.

It's a slippery slope to say it is OK to take from others the things I believe I am entitled to, despite there being laws against it and legal means to success. Who decides?

All my problems would melt away with money..Or a job that paid money. If i could steal £20,000 and get away with it, i would. In a heartbeat. The reason i cant get away with it is society has very very sophisticated ways to prevent poor people from making money quickly. Incredibly aggressive and shaoe-shifting ways

Who would you steal that £20,000 from?
And no I don't think all your problems would melt away with money, although many would be alleviated.

We are a very knowledgeable bunch about jobs. Tell us more about your job and we might help you work out how to get a decent paying version of it.

Is the debt yours or is someone else running it up / are you paying someone elses expenses for them?

I know lots of rich and clever people. None of them can create twenty grand easily.

I'm comfortably off but I don't have access to income other than my salary and have no idea how I ever would get access.

There isn't 'free money' for the chosen lucky sods, inheritance notwithstanding - which requires your parents to die.