Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

I flew to majorca last year with my three sons, they are special needs and dont understand the concept of right or wrong, parents do the best they can but sometimes parents are physically exausted too, unfortunatly planes are public places and these circumstances cannot always be avoided, luckily the people on our plane were fairy understanding, and the flight was only short, 2hrs

I think the problem is that if the special needs aren't obvious people just assume that the child/children is/are just badly behaved.

Oh totally, our holidays are ghastly and boring, due to the fact we enjoy GB as a holiday destination, or places you can drive to in Europe over flying. We'll ignore the fact we have to factor in accessibility, special needs etc. So Paris whilst I'm sure lots of it is accessible and child friend, our children are very outdoorsy and like doing outdoorsy things. I personally would love Paris as well a million reasons, but we know know that our DC would be bored, I think DH would too. There's various places in the EU I would love to go but unlikely will, which is a shame.

DH & I rarely agree fully on things, but just told him about this thread, he agrees that OP has every right to be pissed off. He personally wouldn't take babies/toddlers/young children on a plane out of courtesy for others. We have plenty of opportunities with relatives who own places abroad, who have offered to pay to take GC abroad with them, or said you just need to buy flights and it's yours.

I'm so boring I'm lay on the sofa listening to 80's music, watching DH smirk at his phone, whilst DS and DD unwind after a long day outdoors, sharing the computer. So dull.

I fucking hate toddlers, all of them. They are not cute and no I don't want to play with yours or talk to it or mind it for you on a flight or a train journey. If I'm travelling alone then I either want to enjoy the trip by relaxing/reading/listening to music, or I'm working.

In the words of the Trunchbull.
Glad I never was one.

Awful. But thank god it's not you who has to put up with that every night. There's a reason his mum was sprawled out on two seats.

There isn't particularly anything they could have done to stop the toddler. You can tell them. But they forget in about 10 seconds.

I didn't take mine on planes until they were 8. But then I don't have family abroad.

another form of 'public transport'. My mum will be pleased she can use her OAP pass for world travel now ;)
I enjoyed lovely British hols for a couple of years and can't understand why some people acting as if the suggestion to 'staycation' with toddlers (if you think they'll be a pain on the plane), is such an alarming one?! A couple of years without a holiday abroad doesn't sound like too much of a hardship to me, but if you do choose to do it then don't expect any sympathy from other passengers for noisy children when you have made that decision as though holidays abroad are some kind of necessity! Of course there are other reasons for travelling / children with special needs which is a different matter - I'm just talking about parents taking noisy toddlers on planes.

On holiday that should say

"There isn't particularly anything they could have done to stop the toddler."

Are you for real? How about good old-fashioned physically restrain them so they cannot kick the seat??

I didn't mean that planes are in the same bracket as waiting for a bus, I meant that they are a method of transport in which all members of the public (passport and security permitting ofc) can use.
We go away in just over a month when my ds will then be just over 15 months old to Portugal, a 3 hour flight I'm praying he will sleep and I'm going to take as much as I can in my hand luggage to keep him occupied. I would never ever let him run riot or kick anybody's seats. But I really really hope that if he screams- or poos- that the people around us aren't anything like some of the posters here. I wouldn't expect any strangers to help me out, but if you can see a parent is making all the effort they can to control their toddler (fully aware already of the tutters and the eye rollers) then surely this is understandable and acceptable. Are people so entitled to think that just because they go somewhere then a small toddler shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them, incase they become offended?! This is 'Mums' Net is it not?

I wouldn't be offended. I'd be fed up. I'm not saying I'd eye roll and try and make you feel worse but of course I don't want to listen to a child screaming for 3 hours (who does?!) and at the end of the day you've decided that the risk of DS crying / disturbing others is worth your hols. That's your perogative. Is mine not to be thrilled in those circumstances (especially as someone who made the choice to wait until child old enough not to scream on a plane). Afraid you can't make people agree with your choices

No Twicke I agree with you that I can't make everyone agree, that's completely fine. My point is that yes it's my prerogative to bring my toddler on a plane (and do my utmost to keep him occupied and his annoyance to other to a minimum!) and it's also other people prerogative to be fed up with his noise against all my efforts to keep him quiet. But my issue is with people saying toddlers shouldn't go on a plane at all until they're old enough to understand. Sorry I think that's the risk everyone takes when going on a plane (or any other public place that isn't a bar/adult only place tbf. If the place welcomes children, then people who don't like them shouldn't go or should pay extra for 1st class where's there's less likely to be toddlers or babies around. Just IMO

I think that you don't know what circumstances the family were dealing with, why the parents were seemingly able to sleep through it all, possible exhaustion for god knows how many reasons so a little thought about why they were zonked out and a bit of understanding would have been nice.

I would resent having to pay a shit load extra to fly first class to avoid someone else's screeching toddler!

Lulu49 i would have no understanding at having my seat kicked throughout a flightout
The gm was awake, no excuse

Flying with a toddler is hard work. You need to constantly be available to them and not sleeping. You walk round the plane with them, talk to them play games. Practice at home entertaining themselves. Fly with them as much as you can as early as you can so it takes away some of the novelty. From about age 3 our DS has sat happily on long haul flights but we spent the first 3years intensive parenting on planes. The fact your child is kicking off is not generally what pisses people off. It's the fact a parent is not doing anything to try and help the situation

Fly with them as much as you can as early as you can so it takes away some of the novelty.

God, please, no.

maxandruby yes I'd agree, I'd be annoyed if the parents were clearly doing nothing about it. I'd agree that it does take the parents to be very attentive, I know I would be, I am on the bloody bus never mind a plane.

Ginge85 plenty of people like children, but don't like putting up with screeches and seat kicks. If an adult was screaming and kicking my seat I would be equally annoyed. Stop making this about "liking children", it is about being forced to go through hell by someone who is someone else's responsibility.

No, passengers don't know what parents have gone through. Equally, parents have no idea what the passengers they are forcing to put up with their kids have gone through either, do they? They may have lost a child themselves, so having to listen to one screaming for hours may add to their suffering. They may have a headache. They may have extremely sensitive hearing (like me), in which case a child's scream is equivalent to someone pricking their ear with needles. What do you suggest they do? Smile at you sweetly?

aurynne yes! If an adult was kicking my seat i'd be just as pissed! Nothing to do with it being a child! I'm certainly not a child hater
Kicking my seat would make my pain much worse!
Only difference between the op and me is that i'd have woken the mother up if the gm didn't stop the child kicking my seat. Everytime.

They may have extremely sensitive hearing (like me), in which case a child's scream is equivalent to someone pricking their ear with needles. What do you suggest they do? Smile at you sweetly?

Noise cancelling headphones are the answer.

Have recently been on a 9 hour flight with our 2yo and our 5yo. Hopefully it will have been plain to everyone that we were trying our best because both of them kicked the seats and one of them stood up all the time as well. We took pairs of window and middle seats and fortunately the one who stood up was then facing DH and the other one, and the one behind only kicked his sister's seat.
But DD (who is the 2yo) kicked the seat in front and any attempt to tell her not to just egged her on, physical restraint led to screaming. Distraction worked some of the time. Other things that led to screaming: her child restraint (and the flight was really turbulent so it had to be on and little time for walking around), being very tired and me trying to hold her to get her to sleep, on and off for about 30 mins.

They both only slept for 2 hours despite a really early start and soft play during our connection.

We chose these pairs of seats so they couldn't escape (it was 3-3-3) but we're considering aisle and middle pairs for return.

It does help having two pairs though as it is much more interesting to annoy your sibling than a stranger.

We both nodded off but DH when DD did and me when DS was watching a film quite quietly.

I'd say the main crime of the parents in the OP is not making an effort. It's not always possible to stop your DC annoying someone. It's always possible to try!

Farandole "Noise cancelling headphones are the answer."

Great idea! I can't wait to receive some of those from parents of toddlers/babies in my next flight :)

Ginge85 - I think we just fall down on different sides of what is/ isn't acceptable for other people to put up with. I disagree that if someone goes to a place that isn't 'adult only', then they should have to put up with whatever poorly behaved child/ren is there. Essentially very few 'adults only' spaces- some pubs and spas??? I'm sorry but I think expecting other people to put up with poor behaviour in any public space (just because it is a public space) is what gives the entitled mummy brigade reputation. As other posters have said, none of us know each other's circumstances so i wouldn't be rude to anyone with noisy toddler but I also wouldn't be pleased that the expectation is that I should put up with it as am in a non adult space.

I'm not making this about 'hating children', I just find it a bit baffling that some of the posters on here are so none understanding if they're mothers themselves. Surely we've all been there? Definitely not part of the entitled mummy brigade. I don't think my child should go anywhere and everywhere, but IMO children should be able to go abroad.
I'm not for a second asking anybody to smile at the parents sweetly if they're children are misbehaving- it's annoying. I'm not asking people not to be annoyed. And no I wouldn't want to listen to child screaming for 3 hours either, but at the end of the day, by law children are allowed on flights. They have a ticket and are able to be there. It's the responsibility of the parents to make sure that child is kept under control as much as possible. I'm not talking about seat kicking or other physical misbehaviour, I'm talking about making a noise.
I think passengers should expect that there may be small children on a plane, if you begrudge paying extra for 1st class then bring your headphones and to put it politely 'get on with it'- they do have a right to be there. Sometimes life has annoyances, but you can then get off the plane and enjoy your toddler free holiday!