Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

We live in America and come from the U.K. I dread every flight and I work super hard to keep it considerate for other passengers.

Resonable behaviour is screaming, chatting,singing and crying which people have said, it's the kicking and the grabbing of the op that isn't.
I would sAy something to the parents.
Even if the mother was ill doesn't make it acceptable for the disturbance to the op.

Ok, you are not ebing so unreasable, but you also don't know why they were flying and why the mum was sleeping in twoo seats... preganant maybe ?
I also did fly 13 hours with my toddler twice and got. Eru well prepaared for that because it is extremely hard and embarrasing because toddlers are unpredictable .
You cannot blame them for your lack of sleet and tiredness and should absolutely have asked to be put somewhere else. I am so sure they would find somewhere to put you. They put my DH in the cabin crew jump seat as we where exausted carrying our big baby on our laps :)

Sorry I don't agree with a lot of the comments here, not necessarily you per se, I completely get that toddlers can be annoying. But my view is (as a mother of an 'annoying' toddler) is that it's 'public' transport, and children are part of the public. Ofc, if the toddlers are kicking seats etc and their parents are doing nothing to discipline them then yes, be annoyed at the parents, say something. But at the end of the day these are toddlers, and sometimes at certain ages no matter how great and attentive your parenting is, they're going to annoy someone. As a pp mentioned, lots of people who no longner have toddlers seem to forget what that's like. I've had a constant "omg fucking stop that now" thought in my head a few times whilst quickly trying to maintain my little one, not always to my success. Ofc if the parent is sleeping maybe this isn't the case; or maybe they're absolutely shattered and the gp is taking over. My thoughts are if you don't want to be around young children and aren't willing to accept they're probable behaviour, pay the extra to be away from them. Or else, accept the annoying journey and be thankful you don't have to deal with that behaviour afterwards.

I just got off a ten hour flight with two toddlers. I work hard to keep them entertained and contained and definitely did not sleep! They were angels this time - but of course as others said - when they're strapped in not sure how someone could stop flailing or screaming if it did occur.

I really struggle to see necessity in babies and toddlers travelling on a plane. Other Mums that I know who have taken their family on holiday, dump the kids in day care so they can go to the spa, enjoy the all inclusive free drinks, plus top up their tan. It sounds like most holiday clubs are 9-5, so in my mind im thinking why bother taking them when you've got your own child free agenda going on. Others swap tips on how to have kids and still enjoy the entertainment, so you get ground floor rooms so DC sleep & you get wasted during some resort event.

We chose out of courtesy for others not to fly with young children, as we know behaviour can be unpredictable, it just wouldn't be fair. Plus in 14 years we've discovered you can have a great time and great weather in the U.K., where the beaches are pretty much the same. DS isn't a fan of raging heat even in his teens, so we'd have a grumpy child on our hands more than likely.

We don't miss flying to exotic places, other locations like Paris aren't really set up for children, it's more of an adult thing, so pretty much rules that out. Like for us, the chance of something happening has ruled out London.

I know some parents book a holiday based of children's clubs. I've got no issue with them, but if your children are packed off every day 9-5, what's the point? I don't get why you'd pay so much to not be with your children.

Our best holiday was going to a posh restaurant at lunch, meeting other like minded families, who we spent the rest of the day with, swapping excursion ideas, nice beaches that I don't think you could find abroad. A few times we've booked the same time of year and our DH's & DS's have gone surfing together, whilst we did girly stuff, various workshops etc.

I honestly advocate various UK locations for a break, over abroad, I can honestly say I don't personally wish to go on a package holiday again. It's nice having a change of scenery & being able to do things I wouldn't usually get the chance to.

If you are going to fly as I mentioned previously, little bags 'from your child' with a few bits in, cheer fellow passengers up, they're less likely to be annoyed at any loudness, bad behaviour. Plus free ear plugs to cancel out noise. It seems like most feel it's their God given right to fly and wouldn't compensate others as it's apparently like catching a bus or train. Maybe get t-shirts made up saying 'Deal with it!'

My cousin had to fly from Australia where she loves home to England with a 3 week old baby and a 2 year old when my uncle died. So she was mourning the death of her father and having to manage the 2 children. You dont know why people make the journeys. I would think a lot of the time they are ones of necessity rather than choice.

My son's first flight was horrific - it was short haul thank god and we'd deliberately booked a flight in the evening innocently thinking he'd sleep through ........ he was strapped to me by the special seatbelt and screamed through the takeoff because his ears hurt even though I gave him his dummy to suck. Because the seats are sooooo close together his poor little face was almost pressed into the seat in front. I literally had to bind his legs with my arms to stop him kicking (by accident) the chair in front. Thank god the passengers around us were kinder than some of the posters on this thread. Maybe all children should be put into cages and put in the hold? Maybe the extortionate money we paid last minute for flights to get to a funeral doesn't mean as much as the people without children who booked their flights? For goodness sake - I can't believe the attitude of some of the people on this thread - yes parents should try to control their children I totally agree and yes stopping them kicking the chairs in front is a definite but stopping them shouting, crying etc? Are you for real???!!!! Being trapped in a confined space with annoying noise is awful but at least you'll get to walk away - the parents don't - imagine how much worse they feel with people tutting and rudely commenting on their parenting skills within earshot. Being a parent can be tough and we've all been children so next time you feel like tutting, rolling your eyes, commenting loudly what an awful parent they are to allow their child to dare make a sound - Don't - smile and ask if there's something you can do to help. My son is now an angel on flights but I remember that awful toddler time and I always smile and ask if there's anything I can do and 9 times out of 10 that poor parent smiles back shocked at the kindness and says no but looks instantly more relaxed and the 1 time out of 10 they ask you to do something simple like hold their baby whilst they make their toddler more comfortable and grab out more toys to keep them distracted before taking their little one back. Kindness costs nothing and if we tried to give it out as much as possible the world would be a nicer place!

I had to fly from Canada with 3 under 5's and it was a nightmare - they all swung their feet at some stage and I stopped them each time but they do it without realising as they are restless and the leg swinging is not malicious or deliberate kicking, they are just programmed to move. I stayed awake the whole time as they never all slept at the same time for long. They were chattering, squabbling, crying and leg swinging at various times throughout the flight and I did my best but I know the people in front were fed up with us.
I think the difference here was that the parents were sleeping but to be fair you don't know the history - maybe they'd had no sleep for 2 days which is why gramma was on duty, maybe they were unwell?
On the other hand if you didn't say anything then how could grandma know there was a problem? So yes YABU.

flowerfair here here! My sentiments exactly. I can't believe some people are suggesting not to ever fly with young children ever, because they may annoy other people in the plane? Utter madness

Fairytales your post is incredibly ignorant and narrow minded.

I've travelled everywhere with my children from 3 months old onwards, and as a result they are very good travellers. By the time he was 2, my son had been on 4 continents.

The idea that everyone who travels with kids goes to all inclusive resorts and dumps their kids in a crèche is laughable, as is your notion that Paris is for adults only.

I hate to break the news to you, but 36% of London's population is foreign born, so there's an awful lot of British families who fly to visit relatives abroad, not to top off their tan at a resort.

Then again, I suppose if you are scared of going to London you're unlikely to go anywhere except the English countryside. But don't kid yourself that you 'chose not to fly with kids out of curtesy to others'. It's just that your way of life is very inward looking.

Fairytales your holidays sound ghastly, if you enjoy them, go for them, but pre- or after children they sound equally boring to me.
Some of us travel abroad without parking in an-all inclusive holiday, there are millions of things to do. Saying that Paris is not set up for children? You should buy a guide and educate yourself about the amazing things to do there.

My kids have traveled from very young, to what we thought was suitable, we were well prepared and always had amazing holidays.

Flower quit the entitled attitude, so next time you feel like tutting, rolling your eyes, commenting loudly what an awful parent they are to allow their child to dare make a sound - Don't - smile and ask if there's something you can do to help.
I can't offer you my help, I have my own kids to look after and mine are not creating mayhem in the plane. I have been in very cheap flights, but squashed against the front seat? How big is that baby!
I comment on your brat because he's disturbing my kids and I. If you can't keep him under control, don't flight. Take a bus to your nearest campsite.

No wonder travelers hate parents with attitude like that.

I think they should have sections on planes for people with kids under 5. Keep em all in one place. I've got one and I agree they are a pain in the Arse on planes.

It would be great if planes could somehow put people with children close to other people with children - having travelled with and without children and grandchildren, I feel that this would take a lot of the stress out of the journey, for parents, cabin crew, children AND passengers travelling without children.

In this day and age of almost instantaneous computer seat allocation, I'm sure it should be easy enough to organise.

Lots of benefits I would imagine.

As a veteran of a 26+ hour flight to Australia with a 2 year old, in the middle of a phase of a) not sleeping and b) taking off all of her clothes, I feel qualified to comment. I'm still scarred tbh and it was 12 years ago.

Before we went (I flew on my own), I spent a lot of time on prep work. It was before the days of ipads. So I got her a DVD called "I'm a good little traveler" (US), which takes toddlers through how to behave on a plane - particularly no seat kicking, which we watched a lot and talked through.

She got a few little books about planes with lift up flaps and details on security, the food trolleys, machines etc, I packed loads of things for her to do, wrapped them up in paper and got a new thing out every hour, from her special new bunny backpack - wikkistix, stickers, play dough, snacks, post-its etc.

I booked a 4 day stopover in Hong Kong to break up the flight and help with the jet lag (it didn't).

I also booked the bulkhead seat so she could lie on the floor and also - not have a seat to kick.

I wouldn't recommend travelling that far with a toddler on your own, but on the plus side, every flight I did after that became easier and easier.

Do I judge people with toddlers? Nope, I'm just glad it isn't me.

As soon as she was old enough to wear the headphones for the seat back TV I settled into a no-guilt routine of allowing as much screen time as possible while somebody else cooked. Bliss.

I fly lots, mostly for business and have been that grumpy person telling you to shut your kids up.

Why on earth would I offer to help? I am usually working on the flight and I want to concentrate on that rather than entertain toddlers. I'm also completely useless with toddlers and babies and most children in general so wouldn't be useful anyway.

It does seem as if there's a particular cohort of parents that think their need to sleep or not be disturbed outweighs other people's. it really doesn't.

Personally I hope that the day comes when there's such a thing as childfree flights or airlines stick all the families together away from the rest of us.
Though I do quite like the idea of children in cages in the hold!

"I would think a lot of the time they are ones of necessity rather than choice."

I don't. I also think it depends on the destination. I suspect flying to Australia and New Zealand are more likely to be for family visits. I doubt that flights to Orlando, for example, are for anything other than holidays.

Worst nightmare, unruly children on flights. Never took my children on a plane for a holiday until they were old enough to understand what was expected of them.For those who are makinmaking a move for work etc plan your flight to fit with sleep times as much as you can and for goodness sake realise other folk do not want other passengers inflicting their children on them.

Mumoftwoandover
Can't blame the mom for op's toredness, are for real
Ofcourse she can, her kid was kicking op's seat!
You cannot blame them for your lack of sleet and tiredness and should absolutely have asked to be put somewhere else
How about mom or gm should have looked after child so they didn't kick op's seat? Not a chance should op have to move! Your child should disturb someone that much they have to move

ging i'll say this again, most people ( bar one) haven't said don't fly with kids or that they shouln't scream or make a sound that's normal, kicking, grabbing the seats or the op though is not!

Parents are responsible for the child's behaviour. I've flown many times with my daughter between the ages of 18months (a trip that was 11 hours to and from the UK)l plus 3 domestic trips on that particular trip and was complimented on my daughter's behaviour, she was breastfed at the time which was Bro believe helped as well as my happy to be attentive to my child during those flights allowed her to not feel the need to behave in a unreasonable manners. We have flown again internationally when she was 3 and 4 and fortunately due to her behaviour we haven't experienced what you experienced and what others might or have experienced. Before I had a child I did witness such behaviour on a long haul trip as there was a little boy who cried non stop the entire 11 hours perhaps maybe he did at some point stop but I couldn't say if it was due to him being unwell or if the mother was entirely to blame for not helping the situation as I said it was prior to my having a child and I really didn't have much of an opinion or took much notice when I saw various behaviours from children in public. I can only speak from my own point of view and considering this child was clearly aware of what he was doing it is down to his parents. I'd also be a bit forgiving of the grandparent. You should've politely interrupted the mother or father from their slumber as why should you have to be kept awake by their child. I do take full responsibility for my child and even if I had a family member travelling with me I wouldn't expect them to look after her while I slept especially if I knew what type of child/toddler I have. Everyone is different and sadly many don't respect others if their child is being disruptive, they use that "he/she is only a child" which is relevant in some respects but not all.

As a single parent I decided against taking my kids anywhere by plane, after a couple of goes. We've still had lovely holidays, in Belgium/Holland/Northern France (by ferry) and in lovely parts of the UK. The reason was partly because of the difficulty in managing three toddlers on a flight, but also because of budget airline limitations - splitting us up, thank you EasyJet - or simply the expense.

It was my choice and I don't regret it. I accept it isn't for everyone, and personally I don't mind other people's toddlers, so long as there appears to be at least some attempt at parental control.

There you go again, daniel, accusing me of being "unpleasant" instead of actually listening to or acknowledging my points. But you telling other people they should not fly at all it totes reasonable. You do you, I suppose.

And thank you, all the other parents on this thread who try to balance their own needs and wants with consideration of other people, and who know how much their own children can cope with before kicking off and becoming upset.

When a passenger in a plane stares at a parent and children who are screaming and kicking their seat, they are not judging. They are simply hoping that laser beams will come out of their eyes and make the whole family explode and disappear so they can have some peace.

Passengers can be as understanding as they choose to be. It doesn't change the fact that a toddler's scream is ear-piercingly painful and extremely irritating, and that a person kicking your seat must be one of the most annoying experiences on earth. oh, and a toddler's shit smells of shit. The fact that parents have got used to the familiar smell does not mean others have.

Im smarting at the suggestion that other passengers should help parents with unruly toddler behaviour! If your kid can't behave then don't expect other people to be sympathetic and help you. Parents really should be able to parent. Your child's behaviour is the responsibility of the parent. What sort of parent relies on the support of strangers to keep their kids under control?