Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

Thanks, Katie0705. That sounds so reassuring. 😀After yesterday's flight I cried the whole afternoon. Still feel so knackered and humiliated?

I really think they should have a child zone at the back of the plane and seat all families there.

I always feel so much better if there are children around where we are sitting with ours as you know you're all in the same boat together.

I was on a relatively short-haul flight (5 hours) recently which was at night. After the lights were switched off, a woman further down the plane allowed her toddler to run up and down the aisle screaming. She was actually hanging over her seat smiling indulgently as her kid woke everyone up.

I wanted to get up and tell her to keep her kid under control and stop being so fucking inconsiderate, but I was in a window seat and the stranger on the aisle seat had somehow managed to sleep through the racket. But trust me, everyone else on that plane was judging her. The comments as we got off the flight were pretty sharp.

Redrobin07... to feel knackered is bad enough, but to feel humiliated is just not on. I really feel for you. If I wanted to guarantee a very peaceful flight then I would go business class if at all possible. However, families have the right to travel by plane, so it's just about being tolerant and understanding and not being so bloody judgemental. I feel sorry for parents and the stress that they have to endure...and that's coming from someone who has not had children of their own to travel with!!! Keep your chin up Redrobin...and just think 'fuck 'em'!!!

I think all parents should respect those around them on any flight. When I was a child, my parents had a 4 hour rule. They wouldn't take my sister and I on a flight over 4 hours away. My partner and I travel long haul to Barbados as all his family live there including his Mum who is in her early 70s. I'll be honest & say I had huge concern as to how our daughter would behave on her 1st long haul flight but she was brilliant. I wasn't so much worried about her but those around us as I hate being disturbed by other people's children. I also don't condone kicking of seats under any circumstance. It's the parents responsibility to stop it. If you can't then don't take them on a plane until you can control your child. It's not fair to other passengers. I accept there are always going to be occasions when a child is crying or screaming but instead of throwing crappy looks at the parent, I offer to help. It often distracts the child and stops the crying or screaming & helps calm the parent who is getting stressed & it's making the child worse.

Thank you Kate0705. SEN kids are the toughest toll for a parent, as you know.

I think all ante natal/parenting should contain a whole hour of instruction titled ''yes you dote on your child, but don't make the mistake of believing everyone else in the world does''. There seems to be a new breed of parent who think everyone else should be as smitten and indulgent of their offspring as they are. These are the sort of parents who allow their kids to race round supermarkets (sometimes with trollies) and scream or talk through church services/cinema visits/nativity plays.

Omasa yes i'll get over my disability well done you've clearly solved mine and thousands of people's problems

To those suggesting it is reasonable to expect parents do not take infants on a plane. Really?! It's just a means of public transport. And some suggestions to fly first or business to avoid - newsflash - business is full of children in the holidays and there's nothing to stop them going in first. Lol. Children under two are free on your knee in first as in economy. The issue is surely just that the parents do all they can to amuse and contain their child to minimise disturbance to others. They didn't in this case and that's the problem. Thank goodness when I've flown alone with three children under 7 I've been sat with more understanding, sympathetic passengers!

Redrobin...a very big challenge to travel with a child with SEN. I have worked with children and families for 35 years now...that's why I admire and respect parents, rather than judge them, who travel with children, particularly those with SEN.

Redrobin I have sent you a PM

We paid for the bulkhead seats when we went away so there weren't any seats to kick...
He was noisy at times but I just kept trying to distract - toys, books, iPad etc.
Yanbu because the parents were sleeping - if they were doing all they could it would be different

Keepyourpowderdry...my comment about business class was somewhat loaded with sarcasm.

My first long haul (12 hours) flight was with 16 month dd and 7yr ds. I made up 2 small backpacks with things in to keep them occupied things that they had never seen before. They knew before we started what behaviour was expected and were fab. I am quite firm and have to say that neither of my kids have let me down on flights or when out (different at home some times!)and have grown in to great adults. I did another 10 hour flight 2 years ago with 3 kids and their mum in front of me and spent the flight having my feet poked/tickled by one of her children (while I was trying to slepp. When I gave up trying to sleep I read and one of her other children kept poking their hand between the seats and knocking my book. I asked the mother to stop them but she did nothing so in the end spoke to the cabin crew who told her that she had to keep her children from disturbing others. I did drift off eventually only to have my feet tickled again and I kicked out and caught the child in the face, felt guilty but he didn't do it again! So I would say something and if not resolved leave it to crew to sort.

If kicking is regular anticipate next kick and force yourself back in your seat, have tried this with older kids and it works, as it jars them.

Now that's an adult response!

archeryannie I said nothing of the kind- I was saying that if it is genuinely dangerous for someone to miss a night's sleep, then it is likely that flying long haul is not a good idea for that person, referring to your previous post about serious illness and the implication that a toddler making noise could put someone in genuine danger . At that point I had no idea about your condition (which isn't that) and made no comment re 'people like you.' Obviously I believe that people should make their own choices about whether to fly or not based on their own assessment of the risk.

Oh, bullshit, daniel. I said nothing about serious illness. This is what I said:

Your "mildly inconvenienced" might be someone else's "made ill because they were not able to sleep" or "had to get straight off a plane and do a job interview" or (since we are all so busy guilt-tripping on this thread) "get straight off a plane and got to a funeral".

This is what Ontopofthesunset then posted:

If you're so vulnerable that missing out on one night's sleep means you will become ill obviously you shouldn't be flying.

And then this is what you posted:

As pp have suggested, if someone really is so ill that losing a night's sleep could make them very sick, they really shouldn't be flying either

You seem to be totally outraged if anyone suggests people with fractious toddlers wait a short while until they are a little bit older before subjecting them to flights (and subjecting other passengers to them), just as some thoughtful and considerate parents in this thread say that they have done, but you are awfully quick to jump to the idea that other people shouldn't fly at all.

Well- if it was badly worded then I apologise. to clarify- I don't believe that any group should not be flying. When I wrote that in a somewhat dashed off manner I was talking about people with serious illnesses for whom a toddler on a flight could be dangerous. Obviously it is their choice if they fly or not- not mine. But if they make that choice they obviously do so at their own risk.

I say this as someone who is a very considerate traveler- I do all of the things that pps have suggested re distractions/ snacks/ toys/ preparation /parenting and discipline when I fly with my kids- I don't sleep unless they do and I do my absolute utmost not to disturb other passengers. But as I have said, this is not a perfect science and they do sometimes kick off/ cry/ get fractious or travel sick or whatever. But do I think I should keep my kids away from their elderly grandparents in their final years because despite my best efforts they might disturb someone on a flight? No.

Incidentally- my nephew is 11 who lives in the U.K. and has multiple disabilities that are highly likely to cause minor disturbance (equivalent to that of a toddler probably)on a plane, would love to come and visit us where we live and we would dearly love for him to have that experience. My sister won't take him because she is worried about disturbing people on the flight. I think that's terribly sad personally.

The difference between your nephew and your toddler is that your nephew will not grow out of potentially disturbing others, whereas your toddler will. Nobody wanted toddlers banned from flying, but you have been totally outraged at the idea at asking parents of fractious toddlers to wait a short while until they were no longer fractious.

And you weren't just asserting the right to fly in your earlier posts, daniel, you were cross about other people "judging" you, and calling it "nasty". You were demanding that not only people put up with fractious children that weren't theirs, on longhaul flights that they had presumably paid a lot of money for, but that they should somehow present a happy front to you about it, too.

I think the common ground is everyone agrees parents should try their best to entertain their children and make every effort to limit the behaviour of those children where it will negatively impact on others. But keep some perspective - the behaviour that can reasonably be expected of young children for hours on end is not the same as for adults and it is ultimately just a method of public transport. The plane gets you from A to B. The people with young children have paid just as much for their seats as those without and it's unreasonable to suggest parents with children of any age should consider whether or not to fly. I do wonder if anyone would say that were they not hiding behind a keyboard. Just do your best, parents. That's all you can do!

Yeah- that's pretty fair. I don't expect people to present a happy front in the face of my kids but I do hope that people would be kind enough to see a struggling parent doing their best and not be unpleasant about it. (Which is v different from the op where parents were not doing their best.) anyway if the summary of your point is that you want to feel justified in judging me and being unpleasant then go you.

And if I had waited a few years till my children were deemed old enough by some to fly one of their grandparents would never have met them. How can we possibly balance all the competing needs of everyone who might need or want to fly long haul? Like Daniel I did all I could to prepare my children for flights and took stacks of snacks and books and toys and PlayDoh. I breastfed during takeoff and landing till they were over 2, I provided lollipops and sweets, I (and my husband if we were travelling together) sang and cajoled and cuddled and took turns entertaining. But was I not going to fly in case they disturbed someone? Was I going to deny their grandfather the chance of knowing them in case someone had a bad night's sleep? Really? How can anyone be so presumptuous? Thousands of people have married/had children with people from other countries and continents. Everyone is just doing their best even if it doesn't seem that way to others. The OP doesn't know if the mother was ill. Maybe she had MS or another debilitating condition. Maybe she was recovering from a miscarriage. Most people really are just doing their best.

ontopofthesunset exactly. V similar situation here. The suggestion that we shouldn't fly with kids in these types of circumstances because it might disturb their sleep from people crying "entitled" is quite an irony

OP yanbu but I'm pretty outraged at the suggestions on here that people shouldn't fly if they have toddlers. Even in the depths of my child free didn't have a clue years i wasn't ever that entitled! How can people seriously suggest that. Just tut under your breath and put earphones in, people (kicking and parents doing nothing are not ok though)