I am scared of the kind of society we are becoming?

[brasty]

More and more as a society we seem to be losing empathy for people who are struggling. From those on benefits, to those in overcrowded houses, to disabled and ill people. If individuals think they would not find themselves in that situation, then any empathy seems to disappear.

Not everyone has the same personal resources. Some people are struggling just to get through every day and so eating healthily is not a priority. It is not accident that those with severe mental health problems tend to have worse physical health and higher levels of harmful behavior such as smoking.

Being chronically disabled is shit and makes life much much harder than those who have never experienced it realise. And yes someone may be "lucky" to have social housing, but how about having some empathy if they are struggling in an overcrowded house.

It scares me. This lack of empathy has real affects, Cuts are being made to benefits for disabled people, only because most people simply don't care enough.

well I'm glad I don't live in a society where I'm voting for higher taxes - how does working for less money give anyone an incentive?

Most people are good and trustworthy and most of us help ensure our children have empathy by the example we show to the children

I would agree with that. Experiments with dropping purses etc show that many people would go out of their way to return it.

Many countries are swinging towards the extreme right now - does that indicate that people are mainly kind and empathetic? Trump's election implies that people are getting more and more out for what they can get and screw everyone else

how does working for less money give anyone an incentive

Do you have car insurance? Life insurance?

People pool resources together - some pay more than others but it's by no means proportional. Then when something happens, someone is able to take money from that pot to help themselves.

In a sense, that's what tax is. Or do you think there should be no tax and people should pay for everything out of their own money, everything should be run by companies - and if you fall by the wayside, then tough shit?

luvia

If you want to go and live in a society that is very unequal and does not take care of people who fall by the wayside, then be my guest. There are plenty of countries like that. They probably have low taxes as well.

Obviously I understand how tax works. But to actually vote to pay a higher proportion just seems odd. We do have tax rises forced on us sometimes and that's just part of life. But it boggles the mind that people would actively choose to pay a higher percentage!

And I'm not for abolishing taxes at all, we need them.

The thing about not giving a shit about others is that eventually people who do give a shit about others stop giving a shit about people who don't give a shit.

IYSWIM

Not sure where I have said I don't give a shit about others

I love my friends. I wouldn't choose to go out of my way to help a stranger if there was any negative impact on me.

I wouldn't choose to go out of my way to help a stranger if there was any negative impact on me

Would you help a stranger if there were zero impact on you?

Or would you help a stranger knowing that one day that help could be returned by that stranger?

"You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours", The mouse and the Lion etc...

Or are you the Frog and the Scorpion?

Depends on the situation - there isn't a blanket answer to that

Helping a stranger look after their children via tax credits, Sure Start centres etc means I can have decent health care as I age. Helping refugees integrate into society mean that my society is richer culturally because they are here. Helping prisoners reform and not just be punished means there is less chance of me being a victim of crime.

And by helping I mean 'paying for'. I would gladly vote for this.

It also means I can sleep at night.

I think we should look at how we spend our taxes and if we are spending money on things that help improve and benefit society.

It would be interesting to look at countries and see how much money they raise via taxes and how they choose to spend that money.

Nuclear weapon systems, anyone?

I'm aware that paying tax is inevitable. i don't object to that. And once I have paid my share i understand I don't get to have a say in how it's spent.

And once I have paid my share i understand I don't get to have a say in how it's spent

You do. Well, you get a vote every 5 years and our elected representatives have their say in Parliament and can stop changes that they feel are not what is needed.

Mousse So there IS something in it for you then - that is kind of my point. People often have selfish motives for doing 'nice' things.

Taxes are inevitable. But I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about how brilliant I am to be paying them and that it will change the world and therefore benefit me directly.

So there IS something in it for you then - that is kind of my point. People often have selfish motives for doing 'nice' things

Mutual co-operation. Helping others makes things better for others. And making things more equal means there are less problems for all.

We all benefit if we help others.

But I don't get a say in the minutiae of what it is spent on. It doesn't matter if it goes to the stranger on SureStart or the refugee or the prisoner. I certainly don't lie awake at night worrying about strangers.

I should clarify - it doesn't matter to me which one it helps - it obviously matters to them

But I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about how brilliant I am to be paying them and that it will change the world and therefore benefit me directly

Maybe you should. Taxes help others.

I think mutual cooperation etc is a great theory but I dont believe that absolutely everyone benefits as a result.

It's like if you have everyone in the country the same sum of money. In ten years time, some will be skint, some will be filthy rich. There will always be people who will gain while others lose.

And they are compulsory so it's kind of irrelevant whether I am happy about it or I'm not.

I probably won't get a pension when I retire so I'm not going to benefit directly from, for example, the taxes of younger people paying my pension.

And that's fine because it's the way it is. But I'm not going to jump for joy because I can help other people benefit from things that I don't.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta

Mousse So there IS something in it for you then - that is kind of my point. People often have selfish motives for doing 'nice' things

I was making a point in a way I thought you might be able to relate to. I could respond about my own motivation and give examples from my life but then I would just be 'virtue signalling' wouldn't I?

And isn't reflecting on how you are helping people a little smug? You aren't doing it to be kind. You are doing it because you have no choice!

You really need to consider the way you look at people's motives, it reflects on you not them.

People do good things only to help themselves.
People say good things and they are virtue signalling.
People try to persuade others to do good things and they are smug.

You judge everyone by your own standards which tbh is really sad.