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Original poster

I am scared of the kind of society we are becoming?

335 replies

brasty · 29/03/2017 11:10

More and more as a society we seem to be losing empathy for people who are struggling. From those on benefits, to those in overcrowded houses, to disabled and ill people. If individuals think they would not find themselves in that situation, then any empathy seems to disappear.

Not everyone has the same personal resources. Some people are struggling just to get through every day and so eating healthily is not a priority. It is not accident that those with severe mental health problems tend to have worse physical health and higher levels of harmful behavior such as smoking.

Being chronically disabled is shit and makes life much much harder than those who have never experienced it realise. And yes someone may be "lucky" to have social housing, but how about having some empathy if they are struggling in an overcrowded house.

It scares me. This lack of empathy has real affects, Cuts are being made to benefits for disabled people, only because most people simply don't care enough.

OP posts:
IndianWinter · 01/04/2017 07:24

"PinkFlamingo your attitude is EXACTLY what the op is talking about."

I agree with Angelreid14 and also with businessasussual regarding capitalism and advertising*.

TBF PinkFlamingo's posts have put me off my breakfast this morning. Envy

We have taken very few refuges from Syria and Iraq compared with other European and African countries yet we have destabilised the region there ourselves by meddling and agreeing to an illegal war over oil. Don't get me started with people from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. We British colonised them and divided their country, to serve our British interests. Doesn't seem very empathetic does it?

I also agree that when children are brought up in a nurturing environment that doesn't kill off their self worth whilst still socialising them to adhere to community rules we can have healthier societies. Probably some or many indigenous tribes lived like that. But we have also destroyed that.

ohlittlepea · 01/04/2017 07:28

❤couldn't agree more with the OP. Society needs to grow some empathy!

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 07:42

It's a nice idea about community rules but who gets to decide what those rules are and how to deal with transgressors? By definition our leaders have more power that we do. Unless society is totally brainwashed, you will get people breaking those rules,

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 07:42

And how do we 'grow empathy'?

ohlittlepea · 01/04/2017 07:52

By modelling it, by teaching kids that kindness is the most important thing. By avoiding the right wing media. ...I don't know I hope some of those things help.

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 07:54

It's a nice idea about community rules but who gets to decide what those rules are and how to deal with transgressor

Exile? Community decision?

There are many groups in society which have survived without money and work as a community with community decisions.

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 07:55

By definition our leaders have more power that we do

Depends on how they are allowed to exercise that power. Do they have a meeting that includes people in all big decisions...

Destinysdaughter · 01/04/2017 08:01

In the latest survey of the 'happiest' countries, the Scandinavian countries came out on top ( as usual) . It's been proven that having a more equal society is something that helps create happiness. Britain has become a much more unequal country the last 20 years, partly by demonizing the poor and others in need. It has not created a happy society!

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:19

It doesn't matter what kind of idealist society - you will always have people who want more than others do.

If you exile people who break the rules, you then have a group of people who aren't going to think 'oh I shouldn't have done that' they will think 'nothing to lose now, no reason why I can't take more'

Badly worded but it's early Grin

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:24

Depends on how they are allowed to exercise that power. Do they have a meeting that includes people in all big decisions

Like a referendum? You can include people in decision making but ultimately people will be disgruntled that it hasn't worked out their way. Look at the millions of election result posts on here, not to mention the referendum.

It might be a lovely idea for some people but it actually wouldn't work in practice unless you believe that you would never have anyone who would fight against it. Short of brainwashing I don't see how that could be guaranteed

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 08:29

Like a referendum

I was thinking more of small groups - such as in communities. And I was thinking of decisions made about people who can't follow the rules-such as stealing someone else's food, wanting more etc.

Imagine a group of people stranded on an island. They could work together,share resources, share food etc and all this would help them survive and hopefully improve the chance of rescue.

What would happen if someone broke the community rules and then stole some shared resources?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:36

I imagine they would be punished in some way, thus giving them nothing to lose and giving them the incentive to take ALL of the resources.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:37

It would only work if you didn't have people who would want to take more than their fair share. And model empathy etc all you like, that's unrealistic.

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 08:40

I imagine they would be punished in some way, thus giving them nothing to lose and giving them the incentive to take ALL of the resources

But group pressure means that it would be hard for someone to take all the resources.

And what if the resources were collected by people? People need people to help together. If you steal the resources and they run out, you might struggle to get some more.

Lord of the Flies and all that Grin

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:46

Human beings as a species do not have it in them to ignore the inherent selfishness and work together to make some kind of left wing utopia.

For every one person who would sacrifice themselves for a stranger, you have an infinite number who would push a stranger under a bus (figuratively) just to get a small advantage

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:47

And yy to Lord of the Flies!

I honestly think that that situation would always go horribly wrong

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 08:48

Human beings as a species do not have it in them to ignore the inherent selfishness and work together to make some kind of left wing utopia

We've done quite well so far. Things could be a lot better but things could be a lot worse. Compared to previous times in our history, we're not too bad at the moment.

Moussemoose · 01/04/2017 08:49

LiviaDrusillaAugusta

"Human beings as a species do not have it in them to ignore the inherent selfishness and work together to make some kind of left wing utopia"

So are the inhabitants of the Scandinavian countries not human?

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 08:49

In Lord of the Flies, if the adult hadn't shown up, would they have ended up killing each other?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:56

So are the inhabitants of the Scandinavian countries not human?

Don't be ridiculous. They may generally be happy in those countries. But I'm sure there are just as many Scandis who are selfish and non empathetic as there are in every other country.

Some people seem to think that the goal is to abolish all traces of selfishness but even that is impossible because it's impossible to define. Example - some people think having children is a selfish act. Others think not having children is a selfish act.

You can carry on hoping for a communist utopia but the toothpaste is out of the tube and you can't go backwards.

The best way to survive it is to give/receive the bare minimum to others unless it's absolutely necessary

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 08:58

And good for you if you trust people - I prefer to be realistic

egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 09:00

And good for you if you trust people - I prefer to be realistic

Sometimes in life, you have to trust people. I think trust is rewarded by trust.

Have you heard of the Prisoner's Dilemma and game theory?

Would you have confessed to the crime?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/04/2017 09:06

I don't know - i would want to do what I could to make things easier for me and harder for my accomplice.

I have however heard of The Experiment and totally calm human beings turned into nasty sadistic people when given a position of power (prison warden) and I believe that most people would do that

Moussemoose · 01/04/2017 09:06

No one wants to remove all traces of selfishness. However, as a society we could be more commuted to equality.
Scandinavian societies are committed to working together to improve life for everyone. Some individuals choose to act in a selfish way. Some right wing parties are gaining traction. But as a whole the majority of people consistently vote for higher taxes and higher benefits.

You are perfectly at liberty to act in a selfish way and prioritise your own needs all the time. I will defend your right to do so. Just don't tar me, my family, my colleagues and many others I know with your own self obsessed attitude.

EnormousTiger · 01/04/2017 09:08

Most people are good and trustworthy and most of us help ensure our children have empathy by the example we show to the children. I don't think it's about left and right wing by the way at all. There are good people on the left and the right. A huge part of self reliance and building better communities involves helping others and that is a big part of many of those who are after freedom from a big state.