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to start a thread about trans panic because there have only been seventy six already

417 replies

GustyParson · 28/03/2017 17:22

Trans people want to steal your rights! And stroke your cat. They want to colonise your child's reading books, infiltrate your favourite prisons, appropriate the gold medals you would otherwise win for your peerless skills on the pummel horse, take the best seats on the Tube, demand that midwives talk exclusively about pregnant fathers, haunt your preferred changing rooms, run rampant through the Brownie Guides, go unchallenged in every echelon of the WI, burn all your favourite pronouns in an industrial furnace, benefit from all your oppression, demand your pet dog be addressed as Mx, frolic carelessly across the flower bed you've only just planted for God's sake, insist that there are more than two genders, require to be recognised as the gender 'combine harvester' one day and the gender 'quail' the next, piss on the toilet you wanted to reserve for your friends, and call you Cis which is like totally cruel because it sounds like sissy.

Alternatively, trans people are people, they are not trying to hurt you, most of you have never met one, none of you need to feel threatened by them, and there really isn't a need to start fifteen threads a week fretting that they're going to steal your last Bourbon Cream, appropriate or destroy feminism, or change your baby's name from Thomas to Pixie. Seriously, calm down.

OP posts:
egosumquisum1 · 01/04/2017 13:03

Stealth post on the feminism board

Personally, it's tempting to ignore the trans threads and 'reboot'. I have had surgery, I pass reasonably well and I could just get on with my life. People might guess it was me from my posting style. I should have different names for different boards. It would be an interesting experiment. FWR has taught me a lot.

Datun · 01/04/2017 13:06

FWR has taught me a lot

Me too.

Italiangreyhound · 01/04/2017 20:40

FWR??

DuPainDuVinDuBoursin · 01/04/2017 20:43

The feminism and women's rights section greyhound. You've been here forever haven't you??

EmpressoftheMundane · 01/04/2017 21:02

I'm prepared to be told off here, but it seems to me that men who have a "sex change" and no longer have a penis are not such s big issue for women. I certainly would welcome them into my locker room or public toilet.

Men who are attracted to women, have penises, and get a sexual charge out of cross dressing, used to be called transvestites, and do NOT belong in women's safe spaces.

The problem seems to be that these two distinct groups are now intermingled and are all called transsexuals. I would like to distinguish between them and treat them quite differently.

venusinscorpio · 01/04/2017 21:09

They're not all called transsexuals, they're all called "transgender". As are also people who claim to have two or more "genders".

Datun · 01/04/2017 21:15

The problem Empress is that a sex change, involving full surgery, doesn't necessarily mean you are not autogynephilic. The fantasy of becoming the woman of your own dreams can mean you still go the full monty.

A better distinction would be to separate into androphilic and gynephilic. Androphilic trans-women would present less of a predatory threat and they have a lower percentage of having AGP.

You might feel better if a transwoman has had a full surgery, despite being attracted to women, because it is less of a risk. But, for me, I still don't want to be an unwilling participant in their fantasy.

EmpressoftheMundane · 02/04/2017 00:45

No, me neither. But it gets hard to know what is in people's heads. Physical penis or no penis is more factual.

sorry, transgender not transexual!

Italiangreyhound · 02/04/2017 00:55

DuPainDuVinDuBoursin "The feminism and women's rights section greyhound. You've been here forever haven't you??"

I am not sure that it's been forever but I wasn't sure what FWR stood for, I thought it might be the train service servicing the south west! Wink

Boursin my first post there went down like a lead balloon!

Italiangreyhound · 02/04/2017 01:01

The person who tied up a Canadian rape crisis centre in litigation for about a decade over them not wanting that person to volunteer had had full surgery. As has the rapist who has just gone into a women's prison.

I do think generally surgery to remove penis and balls is important and I do view those people differently, generally. But nowadays it is considered very wrong to ask anyone whether they have had surgery. The argument is, why should you know what I've go in my pants!

As a woman born a woman it's very obvious what is in my pants and to be honest I don't object to telling anyone who genuinely had no idea!

And with the prison and rape crisis centre there would still be places where trans women would not potentially be welcomed or appropriate despite surgery.

(Although in the case of the Canadian centre there were other rape crisis centres that would accept trans women and this particular person left one such place to volunteer at a place that did not accept trans women!)

EmpressoftheMundane · 02/04/2017 09:42

You have to wonder about the motivations of someone who claims that they want to help by volunteering, is told that actually this won't be helpful and then ties a charity up in court. Seems their motivation wasn't really to help, and they weren't so concerned about raped women.

venusinscorpio · 02/04/2017 09:44

Indeed.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 02/04/2017 10:37

Absolutely

I am not the right person to work with some people but it is not about me it is about what is right for them

The argument often moves away from keeping women feeling safe to keeping women safe from those that might access spaces just to cause harm

If we just kept some spaces for girls/women only the issue of keeping women safe in female only spaces wouldn't be an issue

And again I and many many women want to feel safe should a transwomen who had undergone hormone treatment, surgery, lives life as a women is in this space others may feel threatened. We will pick up something is different at a glance we will register a difference and that in itself can feel very threatening

We also have to provide spaces for transwomen to feel safe this will be more complicated as are all entering these spaces genuine that is someone the trans community will have to decide on how to deal with (and I don't mean it's not my issue I don't care but I don't feel it's my place to decide what is better for transwomen as I being a women have different experiences)

And I disagree it was adults the made the issue political children will often just accept a situation as it is difficult for them to articulate why they are uncomfortable or the trust is there they may not feel it is their right to question it as we as adults make those decisions for them

Datun · 02/04/2017 11:31

Seems their motivation wasn't really to help, and they weren't so concerned about raped women.

Would a predatory motivation really take someone to those lengths? Horrifying, if so.

Or was it a mixture of misogyny and a chilling pursuit of validation as a woman?

Either way, the very last thing it was is a desire to help women.

Italiangreyhound · 02/04/2017 12:18

Datun I believe it was a need for validation. IMHO.

I think it's a rare case, it was the 1990s. I'm not saying this is normal or most trans women would be like this. My point was this person had surgery and was a transsexual woman, so actually even with transsexuals there maybe times when we feel uncomfortable to share spaces.

Datun · 02/04/2017 12:50

Italiangreyhound

To be honest, I've never advocated for grading transwomen according to how much discomfort they might generate for women. I think it has seemed in the past like a decent compromise. But it's impossible to implement as the variables are infinite.

As the only definite thing you can say is that men commit 98% of all sexual crime, being male, period, is the most logical marker.

Italiangreyhound · 05/04/2017 04:05

Datun, I agree. Thanks for all your wise words.

I keep imagining all this is going to implode at some time!

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