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to start a thread about trans panic because there have only been seventy six already

417 replies

GustyParson · 28/03/2017 17:22

Trans people want to steal your rights! And stroke your cat. They want to colonise your child's reading books, infiltrate your favourite prisons, appropriate the gold medals you would otherwise win for your peerless skills on the pummel horse, take the best seats on the Tube, demand that midwives talk exclusively about pregnant fathers, haunt your preferred changing rooms, run rampant through the Brownie Guides, go unchallenged in every echelon of the WI, burn all your favourite pronouns in an industrial furnace, benefit from all your oppression, demand your pet dog be addressed as Mx, frolic carelessly across the flower bed you've only just planted for God's sake, insist that there are more than two genders, require to be recognised as the gender 'combine harvester' one day and the gender 'quail' the next, piss on the toilet you wanted to reserve for your friends, and call you Cis which is like totally cruel because it sounds like sissy.

Alternatively, trans people are people, they are not trying to hurt you, most of you have never met one, none of you need to feel threatened by them, and there really isn't a need to start fifteen threads a week fretting that they're going to steal your last Bourbon Cream, appropriate or destroy feminism, or change your baby's name from Thomas to Pixie. Seriously, calm down.

OP posts:
Datun · 31/03/2017 11:39

Moussemoose

How many makes it acceptable?

There is a lot of evidence to show that gynephilic transwomen have psycho sexual disorders, one of which is AGP. Depending on what you read, it ranges from 60% to 100%.

No, not all transwomen have AGP, but everyone with AGP will have access.

What you seem to miss, is it is explicitly those people who want the access in the first place.

So in order to validate the feelings of an infinitesimally small number of genuine transsexuals, we have to allow many, many more dodgy people into the bathrooms and view women and children as collateral damage. Just for validation.

Why?

Datun · 31/03/2017 11:42

Honestly, instead of every gender critical person on here justifying why they don't want to share bathrooms, I would like, for once, someone to give me a bloody good reason why we should.

Datun · 31/03/2017 11:43

And 'because I personally don't care' isn't a reason. Nor is 'why not?'

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/03/2017 11:50

It's essentially a matter of whose rights matter more really ... and of course in any battle about rights women lose.

Moussemoose · 31/03/2017 12:08

Datum I don't think it is ever acceptable to lump a whole group of people together in an insulting way.

"All feminists on MN are anti trans and are bigoted" this has been said, it is wrong. Undoubtedly, some posters are very, very close to bigoted but the statement is wrong and is offensive.

Lumping all trans women together and describing them as 'perverts' harms the argument being made by sincere people concerned for the rights of women. Just as whern trans activists are offensive and insulting it diminishes their argument. It diminishes the opposition to call them 'perverts'.

WankingMonkey · 31/03/2017 12:11

Your clarification doesn't help lessen the issue. You are saying all trans women are perverts.

Except thats not what I am saying at all. But do carry on Grin

I suspect this is wasting my time BUT lets go with it anyway. The only people laws about bathrooms and such will help are perverts. Reason? Transsexual people have been using the bathroom of their chosen sex for years already without issues. Once 'men can access female area' LAWS came in in America, there were a surge in incidents of pervs causing problems in sexed areas. As the only people these laws help are perverts. Sorry if you cannot see that.

Also, the views of nearly every trans woman I have spoken to are that bathrooms, changing rooms etc should NOT be a free for all as is being proposed. As that would make the trans people themselves feel unsafe also. They want into the females as its away from males. Self-identification and basically 'anything goes' removes that for trans people also.

I do however think the majority of 'transgender women' are infact perverts or blokes with a fetish tbh. As 'transgender' is just a feeling, no dysphoria, no nothing. So sorry, I don't feel bad about my opinions on not pandering to perverted and entitled males.

Transsexual people, who do suffer sex dysphoria is a completely different thing. But as I said, these people have managed perfectly well so far without all of this shouting about letting obvious males into female areas...so who is benefiting here?

Moussemoose · 31/03/2017 12:11

Datum
"What you seem to miss, is it is explicitly those people who want the access in the first place"

I don't miss the point I just think those trans women or men who want to use female spaces to objectify women will do it anyway. Male entitlement pushes aside rules. So I think we need to make all public private spaces safer for everyone.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/03/2017 12:12

Lumping all trans women together and describing them as 'perverts' harms the argument being made by sincere people concerned for the rights of women

This is a long and confusing thread. Where did someone say that?

Undoubtedly, some posters are very, very close to bigoted but the statement is wrong and is offensive

Yes, but I have not come across any who were bigoted? Plenty who put women's concerns first and who don't suck dick though.

Moussemoose · 31/03/2017 12:19

WankingMonkey 20:03
"Yes, but that argument falls right apart when you apply it to the reason 'transwomen' want to access female areas now doesn't it"

The clear implication in this statement is that all trans women want access for nefarious purposes. I used the word pervert as that is what is being implied. Unless the purpose trans women want access is so they can use the toilet.

Moussemoose · 31/03/2017 12:21

WankingMonkey
Found it! I thought I'd imagined it.

This is why I used the term 'pervert'

"transwomen' in ' kind of makes it clear I am not on about transsexual people but perverts, doesn't it"

WankingMonkey · 31/03/2017 12:26

If you took from that sentence, that I think all transwomen are perverts then I really do despair.

The 20.03 post...how on earth is the implication from that that all transwomen want access for nefarious purposes...given it was rebutting the argument that if a male was behaving inappropriately in a female area, reporting them is apparently fine.

Datun · 31/03/2017 12:28

Moussemoose

I hear what you are saying. And I don't think people do think that all trans women are perverts. Of course not.

It's just like NAMALT. It kind of goes without saying that we not talking about everybody.

But in terms of bathrooms, I do mean everybody. And yes it is because some of them are fetishists. It's partly because I can't tell one from the other, but also because I don't want anybody who isn't female in there.

Before this all kicked off I wouldn't have had much of an opinion. But the more I read, the more I see that the entire premise of imagining yourself being a woman is so unlike actually being a woman, it's very alienating.

However much transwomen use the word woman, the actuality is that the two are very, very far removed.

It's nearly always (98%) very much a male version of being a woman. The maleness is inescapable.

A transwoman is saying I'm a man, but let's pretend I'm not. And for the entire time that I am in your space, you have to collude with me. Whether that's a piece of piss for you or not, I don't care, because if you don't collude with me there will be trouble. Either I will get violent, or you will devastate me. So which is it to be? Forced collusion, violence, or devastating someone.

I understand if women don't care. Good for them. As long as they realise that it is not a choice.

WankingMonkey · 31/03/2017 12:29

Ahh I see the issue here.

Unless the purpose trans women want access is so they can use the toilet.

The reason generally given is that they are scared of males acting inappropriately towards them and/or assaulting them.

My point was...why is it not acceptable that they report any males acting in this way? Why is that not possible, yet when it is proposed males go into female areas, reporting is suddenly fine and all that is required.

WankingMonkey · 31/03/2017 12:31

they meaning rabid TAs and perverts who are pushing for these law changes that aren't needed.

Not they meaning every single transsexual people who already use the area they feel most comfortable in without issues.

Just incase we go around this circle again...

Moussemoose · 31/03/2017 12:34

Wanking

"I do however think the majority of 'transgender women' are infact perverts or blokes with a fetish tbh."

I see trans gender not trans sexual - is that the distinction?

WankingMonkey · 31/03/2017 12:44

I see trans gender not trans sexual - is that the distinction?

Yes.

'Transgender' people do NOT suffer from sex dysphoria.
'Transsexual' people do.

venusinscorpio · 31/03/2017 12:51

don't miss the point I just think those trans women or men who want to use female spaces to objectify women will do it anyway. Male entitlement pushes aside rules. So I think we need to make all public private spaces safer for everyone.

Yes. And keep them sex segregated. Because of the male entitlement you so correctly mention.

venusinscorpio · 31/03/2017 12:53

But the more I read, the more I see that the entire premise of imagining yourself being a woman is so unlike actually being a woman, it's very alienating.

Yes. There is no putting that genie back into the bottle! So women can't be expected to deny this obvious reality.

Datun · 31/03/2017 13:06

mousse

I see trans gender not trans sexual - is that the distinction?

Yes!!

Datun · 31/03/2017 13:07

This isn't and it never has been about transsexuals. They don't want it, we don't want it.

Datun · 31/03/2017 13:12

Unfortunately, transsexuals are fucked which ever way it goes. If sex segregation is enforced, they can no longer get in quietly under the radar like they used to.

If sex segregation abolished, they will be viewed with all the suspicion that should be reserved for the transactivist fetishists.

It's lose/lose for them already. All because of transactivists.

Billsikesbullterrier · 31/03/2017 13:46

I'm dying to wade in to this. The only problem is that I'm typing on a phone and can't be bothered. Plus some of the rational anti-bigots have said it better than I ever could have? Is it enough to just say I agree with the OP in the sense that their post highlighted, in a humourous way, all the batshit crazy stuff that has appeared on mumsnet with regard to trans issues? Plus Churchill is a star to keep fighting the bigots, as is Tabasco. Not all ciswomen are so horrendously blind as to how transwomen are suffering. In the fucking name of feminism itself, I'm NOT Spartacus, and I stand with you.

BenLinusatemyhomework · 31/03/2017 13:56

Yep transexuals have been well and truly sacrificed at the alter of male entitlement. The TA's couldn't give a shiny shit about them and their actual needs.

venusinscorpio · 31/03/2017 13:57

So sad that you can't wade in to post your important thoughts on the matter. What a dreadful loss to rational discourse.

DanDanDanDanDan · 31/03/2017 14:01

No one here is against trans rights. No one.

I very much doubt anyone here is against transsexuals as we used to know them in women's toilets etc.

On the whole they have a problem with a human with a cock, or 'man' as we used to say literally and figuratively waving their dick about in space that doesn't belong to them.

It sounds to me like you don't actually understand the issues.

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