AIBU to agree with rape victim RE:drunken women judge comments

[FullTimeYummy]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39367339

This is the lady who eas the victim in the recent case where the judge made the controversial comments about drunken women.

I have to say i agree with the victims take on the comments: they are a warning to take care, nothing else

It really isn't a judges place to give women safety advice - I would prefer that came from women's aid or even the police. A judge sits in judgement of cases they are meant to be impartial and fair, weigh up evidence and take each case on its own merit. I have no desire to take advice on how to live my life from someone constantly being immersed in the worst of societies ills. They are bound to be affected by it. I make my own judgments on my life.

You don't get to decide that my opinions are "incorrect".

Of course there are no publicly funded campaigns telling women not to drink to try to reduce the risk of being raped: our culture, law and media do that very effectively.

Dozer: do you actually have point you'd like to make?

the problem is if we tell women there are ways to avoid being raped we are telling them they should avoid being raped ...and it's a lie - we are lying to women - to ourselves and our daughters - because we can't avoid rape - lots of women are raped stone cold sober

There was a campaign aimed at women re drinking and rape a few years ago, but there was a huge stink about it and it got pulled.

It was called know your limits, I think.

Ghosty: it's about reducing the risk of a specific type of rape.

Maybe i should type that a few more times, in capitals maybe?

Dozer I wouldn't waste your breath anymore. The OP has posted on AIBU, has been told by the majority on this thread that she is BU but is still being patronising and goady to those who disagree with her.

Seriously, why do people do this in AIBU? Why not post in chat if you don't want to be told you're being unreasonable? And what's with the air of superiority with the OP here?

Dozer your threads have explained very clearly why she is BU. If she can't see that by now there's no hope!

OP your last post:

Ghosty: it's about reducing the risk of a specific type of rape.
Maybe i should type that a few more times, in capitals maybe?

Tell me you wouldn't say that to someone in real life would you?

To quote Chandler, could you BE any more arrogant?

Ghostly seriously this is one GF here, give it up, you're on a losing battle (and I'm on your side!)

Hold: i havent counted, but i think you will find the majority agree with me, in that the basic concept of taking care is sound.

MN has a majority verdict, the judges comments are supported and IANBU

Thanks holdbacktherain

You're right OP: your view probably is supported by the majority of people in RL. And the media, with the reporting of the views of one judge and one woman who was raped, rather than those of organisations like Womens Aid, for example.

I'm about as feminist as it's possible to be and I thought the judge's comments were sound. Women who are very drunk are in a vulnerable position and easy to prey on. That's true for men who are very drunk too, of course - it's much easier to mug someone who is out of it. It doesn't mean that it's their fault that they were attacked.

Don't get paralytically drunk is a piece of advice that I will give my daughter.

It's a nice idea that we should just tell rapists not to rape, but I imagine it will be about as effective as telling burglars not to burgle, or murderers not to murder.

Dozer, thw majority on this MN thread also.

Im sure you're a lovely lady but you're views are so biased and blinkered it's not worth the hassle of trying to open your eyes to what really is a basic concept.

Sometimes everybody else isnt wrong, its you.

So how drunk are women allowed to get?

Women can get as drunk as they like, nobody has ever suggested otherwise.

It has simply been suggested its worth appreciating that certain risks increase as you get more drunk. That's it.

There is plenty that could, for some potential future rapists.

For example, many of my daughter's male friends behave inappropriately towards the girls, physically, eg in playground games. They don't stop when she says "no". Those boys need to be taught about boundaries and consent.

My male friends at university would joke about things they'd heard about, about friends' behaviour being "rapey"

if we tell women there are ways to avoid being raped

We are telling them how to help make themselves less vulnerable to crime.

I mean how drunk do you have to be before you're not taking enough care? If I have one drink and I get raped will people think that I could have done more to prevent it?

Elisheva:
Sorry, no idea. By MN standards probably half a bottle of wine

Two separate issues.

Swilling into the usual Saturday night state is disgusting. Ending a night out vomiting or with a memory blackout? You are a filthy skank. Yes, in that state you are vulnerable.

But it still doesn't make a crime your fault.

I think there should be a nationwide campaign aimed at men, like the one punch campaign, reminding them that being so drunk they can't understand what 'no' means, can have serious consequences, of lives destroyed (victim and rapist) prison sentences, and social ostraciam.

Was there a 'no means no' campaign at some point? I can't remember, but vaguely feel there was.

Sadly we do not live in a perfect world and never will.
We should be able to go out and leave our windows open and doors unlocked but most of us do not for fear of opportunist burglers.
We should be able to walk around a city without worring about pickpockets/bag snatchers but most of us would keep our wallets close and bags zipped.
We should be able to let our kids play freely but most of us if we let them go out alone would remind them of stranger danger and what to do in an emergency etc.
We should be able to trust someones word but often ask for stuff in writing just in case.
Every day of our lives we are doing stuff to minimize risk for us and our families because there are people who cannot be trusted around us, whether they be liars,thieves,perverts,or just plain ignorant.
I cannot understand why people think that telling our children how to stay as safe as possible and minimize risk to themselves is a problem.
Apart from anything else, the current culture of going out and getting bladdered on a weekend is harmful in so many other ways than just the risk you put yourselves in.
I do not agree with the argument that if you protect yourself you put someone else in danger. If we all lock our houses, an opportunist thief will go home empty handed.
No-one anywhere is saying that a rapist is anything less than 100% to blame but we must not throw out the baby with the bathwater. We need to teach our children how to be as safe as they can.

Could you be more goady and patronising?

It is crazy to think that being drunk doesn't increase risks of harm - all sorts of harm, from falling over to developing liver disease & everything in between. It increases the risk of being raped - how can it not?

Inhibition is lost with drinking - "Dutch Courage" - & judgement is increasingly impaired with increasing drunkenness - these are facts.

In my youth, I have drunkenly danced topless in discos, accepted lifts from strangers, been walked home and kissed by dodgy blokes I wouldn't usually associate with & I was very lucky never to have been taken advantage of. Lucky. Fortunately most people are decent & don't take advantage.

If I had been attacked, would it have been my fault - no, obviously not, but I would have put myself in an unnecessarily vulnerable position by being pissed as a fart.

I don't have a daughter, but I caution my DS19 not to get out of control & to keep with his group - more worried about him & his mates getting into bother with their quick wit & smart mouths & ending up being thumped or worse, not to mention being robbed or dying of hypothermia slumped in a doorway, than sexual assault, obviously, though of course it happens. Warning sons about getting off with drunken women is also excellent advice given by a PP upthread.