AIBU to agree with rape victim RE:drunken women judge comments

[FullTimeYummy]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39367339

This is the lady who eas the victim in the recent case where the judge made the controversial comments about drunken women.

I have to say i agree with the victims take on the comments: they are a warning to take care, nothing else

So people who have got this wrong are:

A judge with a wealth of experience
The victim in this specific case
Society as a whole

People who have got this right are:

some folk of MN

Well ONE judge and ONE victim. I am sure plenty of both disagree with what they have said.

Can't get raped without a rapist, while I agree that women and girls (and men and boys) should be taught to take care to prevent putting themselves in a vulnerable position, it should never be allowed to justify or minimise the crime of the attacker.

The only person responsible for any kind of assault is the aggressor and if they can't find a vulnerable drunk they'll find someone in a vulnerable position. Someone walking home after work, walking to their car, sleeping alone in their bed... Many homes are very easy to break into.

But if everyone is much more cautious then perhaps it will deter more perpetrators.

Judbarian, I agree entirely

No, it doesn't stop them from raping someone else. However, it lessens the chance of there being a rape.
However, at the risk of getting flamed, I sort of agree.
Our daughters and sons (because bad things happen to men too) should be able to go out and have a good time without any problems.They should be able to wear what they like, drink what they like and go where they like.
I'm 48 and things have changed massively since I was in my late teens/early twenties. Drink and drugs are more available these days...shots are lined up on the bar, big goldfish bowls of drink are common......'legal highs' are widely available.I can't be behind them every time they go out. So I think as a parent, it's up to me to educate them so, hopefully, bad things won't happen to them. They have a duty of care to themselves......to know when they've had enough to drink so they don't end up passed out alone on a park bench or in a shop doorway, leaving them vulnerable.....to get a cab home,or ring us if they get seperated from their friends...to not go off with someone they don't know. Because there will be people out there who will take advantage. And I'm not saying that they're asking for it-far from it.Nobody asks to be attacked or raped. But they can lessen the risk.

Rapists choose to rape, they alone are responsible for the crimes they commit, the attacks they make against others, but they will choose their victim and alcohol will make their potential victims more vulnerable and easier to single out and overpower.

A long time ago my friends and I were followed by some bloke, drunk and a pita who wouldn't leave us alone. He ended up attacking us. We were sober. I knew then that if we not been sober it would have been a much tougher situation to manage.

Tbh this happened over 20yrs ago. I still don't drink to excess unless I'm 100% trustful of who I'm with.

I've lived in oppressive relationships, in oppressive countries where women are actively discouraged from being outside and I'm against this to my very core, I believe we can choose to do what we want to do, but we must understand that we can't throw all caution to the wind, we do have to think about our own personal safety, it's our responsibility to ourselves.

Yes we should be safe wherever we are, whatever we do, but there are people who choose not to live by the rules of decent society, we can't make things easier for them by incapacitating ourselves.

yummy no, there aren't. They hardly exist at all. Sage to say thankfully your views.are in the minority.

I was homeless, in a hostel, drunk and in other states of incoherence when I was raped. The police had cctv footage. I got told I set myself up for it and was probably asking for it as I didn't remember much pre attack.

Stop victim blaming.

I was a state I agree, I never invited that to happen and it never should have.

Short posts as mumsnet is playing up
Worked for an insurance company

Man rang about window locks

www.rcni.ie/alcohol-consumption-and-victim-blaming-2/

We said he didnt need them

He insisted and got them fitted

He fogot to lock them one day and was burgled

Insurance company wouldnt pay out as he had locks but hadnt used them

No idea what my story means

But i have a suspicion that women are to blame whatever happens

I was also raped 8 years prior. In a stable relationship, sober and fine. I was raped wearing office clothing.
That shouldn't have happened either, yet, that man was never prosecuted as he was my partner.
I had to tell police roughly how many times we had had sex in our 2 year relationship.

Victim blaming is everywhere.

The problem with so many of these kind of discussions is that they seem predicated on the fact that men are these helpless creatures and we must avoid putting temptation in their way by not getting drunk / wearing short skirts / have a vagina. The vast majority of men manage to be around drunk women (and men) without raping them. It's not really that hard.

And, given that I suspect there are a large number of rapes which are committed by intoxicated men, maybe the focus of the discussion should more be a warning to men not to drink so much that they end up raping someone rather than this constant victim blaming shit?

I see it as more along the lines of 'Remember to lock your car otherwise someone might steal it.' It's not ok to steal a car, and if someone does, regardless of whether it is locked or not, then they've committed a crime and they need to be properly punished. And if they really want to steal it, locking it won't make vast amounts of difference.
But, there are things you can do to make it a bit less easy to steal, to look after your car.
It's not my fault if it gets stolen, even if I forget to lock it. But I'd never knowingly walk away form my car leaving it unlocked because people 'shouldn't do that'. No. They shouldn't, but there are people out there who would so I will take some basic precautions. It doesn't mean I won't ever take my car out, or leave it unattended in a public car park, but I will take basic measures to ensure its safety because some people are shits.
Same here. You shouldn't have to but this is not a perfect world, so why wouldn't you take some basic measures to try and keep yourself safe? It doesn't make the rapist less of a shit, but it does maybe help to keep you a bit safer. When no-one anywhere ever commits crimes anymore, then great. In the meantime, keep yourself safe in world you actually live in while trying to create the world you want to live in.

Ooh another insurance story

Man left keys in lock of car when he went to pay for petrol in a rural garage

Insurance company refused to pay when the car was nicked

Tribunal judge made the insurance company pay up as he said it was perfectly reasonable for the man to assume his car wouldnt be nicked

Moral of that story?

Burglary and theft stories are fucking useless on a rape thread

I was sexually assaulted a few years ago. I was drunk and I agree with what the judge said. I made a few bad decisions because I was drunk. I put myself in harms way. It's not totally my fault what happened but if I hadn't been drinking/hadn't drunk as much, this wouldn't have happened.
People have to take some responsibility for their own safety. Yes people shouldn't commit crimes. But they do. Surely anything you can do to protect yourself is something you should do.

Rufus, its pretty much just your posts that have been useless.

And distastefully flippant.

Please what happened to you was not your fault please don't blame yourself for being attacked

Men who rape aren't going to be put off by "educating them not to rape women" they're evil and no amount of soundbites and education will put them off.

FFS don't be so stupid. I'd rather not make myself vulnerable by being paralytic drunk and going off myself than relying on some education programme that will stop men raping women.

So YANBU OP.

I always tell my daughter to watch what she drinks, to stay safe and not to go off with men she doesn't know. Likewise I've told my DS (23) to be careful if he engages in sex (particularly a one night stand) that it is consensual and if the girl is drunk, don't do it. I hope he listens but like I said earlier in my post, if you have tendencies that lean toward that kind of behaviour then no amount of education will put you off.