to be thoroughly sick of the double standards

[teaandakitkat]

My son aged 10 is in a class of 25, 23 averagely well behaved kids, and two nightmare boys. They have both joined the school in the past year because they were permanently excluded from their last school.
I know they have crap, chaotic home lives, I know they are unhappy on the inside, I know all the other kids have way more advantages and are really the lucky ones. But I honestly am so sick of the double standards.

The teaching staff pander to them all the time. They can't control their behaviour. All normal sanctions don't apply to these kids . They have Golden Time free play on a Friday, if you misbehave during the week you lose it. Apart from these boys who never lose anything despite their behaviour. I honestly think the teachers are scared of them and scared of their reactions, they do anything to keep them quiet.

I'm a parent helper in the school and am often in the classroom. One of them called the teacher "a fat shit" and the teacher said "X, we don't speak like that in this classroom. Please don't speak for the next 5 minutes". The kid gave her the finger.
I've seen her send other kids to the head teacher and lose all their golden time for less than that. One of the kids challenged the teacher's blatantly unfair decision and she lost golden time for being cheeky!

There is half an hour on a Thursday where the kids are allowed outdoors if they have all their homework finished, if not they stay indoors and finish it before going out. Apart from these two boys, they have never done homework and are always outdoors.

Now I get that they need extra help, I get that they have no support at home with homework, but the blatant double standards are causing trouble. These kids know they are untouchable and brag about it to the others all the time. The others are getting seriously frustrated and I can see some of their behaviour getting worse as they try out more silly behaviour to see what they can get away with.

Last week my son and his friends were not allowed to take part in a school swimming lesson because of some stupid behaviour earlier in the week. Fair enough, I have no problem with that. But x and y were allowed to swim, despite one of them repeatedly kicking a football at a window until it broke earlier in the week. I was in school, I saw it. The teachers were scared to go up to him and stop him.

The head teacher is the only one who seems able to handle them but she's got an entire school to run, not spend all her time with this pair. If they are put out the class they go and spend the time with the head, helping her with whatever she's doing or sitting on a seat outside her door playing on the school iPad. (Again I've been in school, I've seen this on many many occasions, and heard them bragging to the other kids about the youtube videos they've been watching during class time)

I have mentioned it informally a couple of times but I think it's time for something more. It's not fair. If they need to make exceptions then surely they have to be more subtle. I know 3 other parents went to see the head teacher together but were just fobbed off with a story about 'inclusion' and the school's duty of care to everyone.

I'm not sure what sort of solution I'm looking for though. There are difficult people in all walks of life and that's part of life learning how to deal with them, right?

Would it help if they troublemakers were in different classes? I don't know why they were put in the same class in the first place, my instinct would be to split them up. Or will they not be able to separate them now because it would stigmatise them or something?

There is an extra teaching assistant in their class, not specifically assigned to these boys I don't think, but I'm sure she's there to support the teacher.

But at the end of the day why is it ok for one kid to call a teacher a fat shit in front of the whole class and have no sanction at all, or smash a window and get to sit outside the head's office watching YouTube? That can't be right.

So now I've got all that off my chest I'd be keen to hear if anyone has any practical suggestions for what I can do. I don't want to just go into school with yet another complaint. I feel for the staff, they're in a rubbish situation. But it's really really not fair on the others. Can anything be done?

so if the average child is allegedly able to comprehend that his/her classmates are differently abled.. and rules don't apply..by the same token can the child with the unfortunate upbringing, not comprehend that spitting, bullying and calling staff vile names is the norm and therefore switch accordingly?

*sorry is not the norm

great at age 9/10

No user they can't. Childhood trauma causes brain damage.

miaow this is exactly what is happening with us,

Note that the people who jumped in to support the disablist tripe written earlier were all teaching staff. Agreeing that kids with 'sen' are incapable of behaving like human beings, that there is nothing wrong with most of them other than that they are lazy, selfish and entitled. That school resources are wasted on them as they refuse to learn.
I think we need to accept that attitudes like this are, at least, part of the problem. They are not attitudes, ime, that you hear from experienced specialist teachers. Prejudice doesn't command respect.

Note that the people who jumped in to support the disablist tripe written earlier were all teaching staff

Don't remember doing that but hey ho.

I havent read all of the threads but would ask the teacher governor what can be done.

There was very little support from anyone for that deleted comment.

I know a few teachers who don't believe in SEN, a few who think SEN is an excuse to behave badly, and some who think that behavioural problems are solely down to the child being bad. But most of us are simply saying that what we are doing now isn't working. For the individual child or for other children in the class.

I certainly don't think that resources are wasted on children with behavioural problems - what I'm saying is that there are no resources being spent on lots of these children. I think that 20 hours of my time is a waste because it hasn't produced any results. It has led to no improved outcome for the individual child AND has reduced the time I spend on the other children, no doubt leading to poorer outcomes for them too. So literally every child in that class is losing out, including the one with behavioural problems. How could that be anything other than bad? I think that those 20 hours would be better spent by specialist support. But it won't happen because nobody is willing / able to pay for that specialist support.

FWIW, I don't want this child out of my class. I want to know how to help him to learn. But I'm out of ideas, and nobody I've spoken to (parents, other teachers, slt) have any idea what to do either.

This isn't the first time I've had a child like this in my class, and I'm not prepared to keep going through the same cycle over and over again. Because to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results is sheer madness.

Miaow

Agreeing that kids with 'sen' are incapable of behaving like human beings, that there is nothing wrong with most of them other than that they are lazy, selfish and entitled. That school resources are wasted on them as they refuse to learn.

PLEASE ALERT ME TO WHERE PEOPLE SAY THIS

User the comment was deleted.

MiaowTheCat. I don't believe that you were one of the posters agreeing with the deleted comment so unless you actually do think kids with sen are subhumans who are lazy, selfish and entitled and a waste of public money (which it doesn't appear you do) I'm not sure why you are upset about me condemning those views?
Of course there are many teachers who are understanding and treat children as individuals and it is a shame that the required work hours and stress is leading to ill health and to many leaving the profession. But I have worked in any schools and views such as those from the deleted post aren't uncommon either.

ok so paraphrase for us please.

I think most parents would be shocked at the behaviour of some children in their kids' classes. I've been a parent helper, seen the melt downs some difficult children have. Eye opening. I kept my mouth firmly shut but do sympathise if you saw this I'm your own child's class. if I'm honest I'd be tempted to either ask for a class move or a school move if it was so bad.

so the 10 year olds in the OP''s post can't do rules because they have SEN AKA brain damage?

and the other 25 have to understand their classmate is differently abled?

Miaow, I really feel for you.
I think a lot of the people with actual experience of being in the class teachers or otherwise show that there is a massive problem in schools, I know as a parent I hear enough off of my son how disruptive some children are and how they are wrongly dealt with.
I should be moving him soon hopefully.
Makes me wonder though whether the next school he goes into is going to be just as bad..

RebelRogue, the initial comment was deleted, but it was repeated by TheRealPooTroll at Mon 27-Mar-17 23:22:49

I posted early on in this thread and have just been catching up.

Two instances spring to mind from comments made on here.

One is a boy in my oldest DD's class at primary school. He had been suspended from school on a few occasions and then his mum removed him, placed him in another school for a year and then he came back. I think was to pre-empt a permanent exclusion. The boy in question was quite frankly, dreadful. He had my daughter in a headlock in class and was squeezing her neck, he once brought a knife into school (aged 9) and then proceeded to climb onto the roof of the school needing the police to be called. He wasn't neglected but his mother was equally as badly behaved. In his case it was learned behaviour. His mum, on one lovely occasion at sports day, decided I had snubbed her (I hadn't actually heard her talking to me) and grabbed me by the hair and tried to drag me out of the school gates. With my toddler in tow.

Another child was a boy in reception (I was a parent helper in the class). God, he was so sweet, such a lovely child. He was being dragged brought up by his dad and had two older brothers. His lunch pretty much consisted of a bar of chocolate and a bottle of lucozade. We never gave him any homework because his reading books never came back. He would happily tell me he'd been up playing Call of Duty half the night with his brothers while his dad was at the pub. I often wonder about him. I just wanted to take him home with me. He was skinny, couldn't read at all, could barely recognise individual letters even with me giving him one to one every morning for 45 minutes for an entire year on top of the regular teaching time. My heart absolutely broke for that child. I used to devise fun games to help him learning his letters and first words and he loved it although it never seemed to sink in with him. I just hope that social services are there supporting the family and this kid has a chance in life.

So there you go. One violent thug of a child who learned the behaviour from his mum. And one very neglected child who wasn't fed properly and was clearly not receiving any parental support who was absolutely lovely.

I don't think we should ever assume that violent children come from neglected homes or from parents who have drug or alcohol issues. I also know two kids whose mum is an alcoholic and those kids are always in school, always clean, well fed and lovely and polite kids.

Their other post that was also deleted was just as bad. I have paraphrased what was said a number of times.

Mycatsapirate It is interesting. Different children do seem to have different levels of resilience to neglect/trauma. I believe that being female is a protective factor. Also adverse circumstances in the first 3 years (especially the first year) when the brain is developing most rapidly are more likely to have long term effects than in older children.

I absolutely agree that a head teacher is crucial to whether discipline works or not.