to be thoroughly sick of the double standards

[teaandakitkat]

My son aged 10 is in a class of 25, 23 averagely well behaved kids, and two nightmare boys. They have both joined the school in the past year because they were permanently excluded from their last school.
I know they have crap, chaotic home lives, I know they are unhappy on the inside, I know all the other kids have way more advantages and are really the lucky ones. But I honestly am so sick of the double standards.

The teaching staff pander to them all the time. They can't control their behaviour. All normal sanctions don't apply to these kids . They have Golden Time free play on a Friday, if you misbehave during the week you lose it. Apart from these boys who never lose anything despite their behaviour. I honestly think the teachers are scared of them and scared of their reactions, they do anything to keep them quiet.

I'm a parent helper in the school and am often in the classroom. One of them called the teacher "a fat shit" and the teacher said "X, we don't speak like that in this classroom. Please don't speak for the next 5 minutes". The kid gave her the finger.
I've seen her send other kids to the head teacher and lose all their golden time for less than that. One of the kids challenged the teacher's blatantly unfair decision and she lost golden time for being cheeky!

There is half an hour on a Thursday where the kids are allowed outdoors if they have all their homework finished, if not they stay indoors and finish it before going out. Apart from these two boys, they have never done homework and are always outdoors.

Now I get that they need extra help, I get that they have no support at home with homework, but the blatant double standards are causing trouble. These kids know they are untouchable and brag about it to the others all the time. The others are getting seriously frustrated and I can see some of their behaviour getting worse as they try out more silly behaviour to see what they can get away with.

Last week my son and his friends were not allowed to take part in a school swimming lesson because of some stupid behaviour earlier in the week. Fair enough, I have no problem with that. But x and y were allowed to swim, despite one of them repeatedly kicking a football at a window until it broke earlier in the week. I was in school, I saw it. The teachers were scared to go up to him and stop him.

The head teacher is the only one who seems able to handle them but she's got an entire school to run, not spend all her time with this pair. If they are put out the class they go and spend the time with the head, helping her with whatever she's doing or sitting on a seat outside her door playing on the school iPad. (Again I've been in school, I've seen this on many many occasions, and heard them bragging to the other kids about the youtube videos they've been watching during class time)

I have mentioned it informally a couple of times but I think it's time for something more. It's not fair. If they need to make exceptions then surely they have to be more subtle. I know 3 other parents went to see the head teacher together but were just fobbed off with a story about 'inclusion' and the school's duty of care to everyone.

I'm not sure what sort of solution I'm looking for though. There are difficult people in all walks of life and that's part of life learning how to deal with them, right?

Would it help if they troublemakers were in different classes? I don't know why they were put in the same class in the first place, my instinct would be to split them up. Or will they not be able to separate them now because it would stigmatise them or something?

There is an extra teaching assistant in their class, not specifically assigned to these boys I don't think, but I'm sure she's there to support the teacher.

But at the end of the day why is it ok for one kid to call a teacher a fat shit in front of the whole class and have no sanction at all, or smash a window and get to sit outside the head's office watching YouTube? That can't be right.

So now I've got all that off my chest I'd be keen to hear if anyone has any practical suggestions for what I can do. I don't want to just go into school with yet another complaint. I feel for the staff, they're in a rubbish situation. But it's really really not fair on the others. Can anything be done?

OP, I think YANBU.

There are some badly behaved boys in DS2's class, and they each have a behaviour plan. This means they are each awarded a mark (0, 1 or 2) for their behaviour in each section of the day (morning, break, lunch, afternoon etc). If they fail to reach a certain number of marks in a week, there are clear sanctions (not allowed to play football in playtime, lose golden time, sent to head etc). If they behave well for long enough, they can come off the plan.

This approach is making a real difference to their behaviour and the experience of the other kids in the class.

It did seem to take the school several weeks (and a few complaints from parents) to realise how bad their behaviour was, and start putting this system in place. They don't sound as bad as the boys you describe though!

I have no problem with "problem" children being given some leeway IF the children are responding and their behaviour is getting better. However in this case, where the teachers are doing nothing, I'd complain because it sounds like yeah teachers can't cope (who can blame them) and the DC need expert help.

The HT should be doing something to help the DC and the class teachers. If you complain they might actually do something!

I would complain, complain, complain, cc the governors and encourage all the other parents in the class to do the same. It's not fair that 23 DC in the class are being held to account for their actions, while 2 are behaving appallingly, have already been excluded, and are continuing to disrupt and raise merry hell in another school. I would be apoplectic if this was happening in my DC's class.

OP, firstly you have no right whatsoever to know if any behavioural plans are in place for these two boys... why would you!

Secondly I really think you should stop helping in school because you clearly don't understand the word confidentiality since you are here talking about two boys who potentially may be identified because of your lax tongue.

Go ahead and speak with the head if you are concerned about your child, but rest assured these two boys are none of your business!

I think as a parent volunteer you get to see what teachers and school management have to deal with. There is a bell curve and those two DC fall in the bottom 2.5% when it comes to behaviour.

I feel really sorry for those two boys. From what you say I think the school is letting them down because it doesn't sound like inclusion is appropriate at this point. The problem is that you can't say anything because you are a parent volunteer.

It's a life lesson to your DC. Not everyone is equal and your DC are held to a higher standard because that is what they are capable of.

There are times when certain kids will be allowed to 'get away with' things because otherwise you'd be constantly telling them off and never get any teaching done. this is known as tactical ignoring.
However, calling the teacher a fat shit is far far beyond the realms of what a child should be able to do without serious sanction. In my school (secondary) the sanction would have been at the least internal isolation for a day, but probably a day's exclusion. If I were you I would be speaking to the headteacher and expressing my grave concerns (as a parent) about the effect of these children on the learning and behaviour of other students.

There is no magic wand though.
Ds is at a specialist school with very specialist staff and even so he has problem behaviours ( disability related) that are very difficult to get rid of.
Even if these boys would be better off in a more specialist environment, there are very few places available at that type of specialist school.

It is a problematic situation and one I recognise from what my dd has said about children in her class. She has recently had work spoilt but didn't do anything because she is afraid of the boy in question. I have been in before about class behaviour but I think there is a similar situation to the one in ops post.
So the question is, as a parent, what do you do?
I know the school don't want to exclude these disruptive/difficult children and have a management scheme for them which is different to that for well behaved children. I also know that this causes resentment and annoyance. As an ex-teacher I also know constant exclusion and punitive measures do no good whatsoever.
But what of our children? We've talked about strategies for avoiding confrontations, ways of dealing with situations like work being ruined, ways of coping when a class is derailed by behaviours, not repeating disgusting language learned from others, being your own person etc etc
My dd has requested to go to an all-girls school next year, I'm sure her experiences in primary have fuelled this!

I feel sorry for the teacher. In what other job would someone call you a fat shit and if would be your fault?

As you're not a member of staff you won't get to know what the care plan is for these boys. What you can do is go in as a regular parent would and ask to speak to the HT about the effect their behavior is having on your child.

As a pp says, be careful to stick to just that, and NOT to bring up what you may have observed or overheard as a volunteer.

It's often not a case of not wanting to exclude. There are incredibly strict criteria for exclusion, temporary and permanent, which is as it should be.

I would talk to the teacher and the Head to voice your concerns as to how this affects your child's ability to get an education and how it affects your child's behavior. The double standard is annoying for the other children but may be a behavior plan the school has put in place together with social workers etc. as it is the best for these particular boys. You could point out what you have personally heard from the other children so they know that their behavior is starting to slip as a reaction to what they see as unfair treatment.

The teacher and Head cannot give you personal details about the boys but they may be able to explain whether they are aware of the problem, and have a plan in place. They may be able to hint whether a long term solution is on the horizon. I am not in the UK but there is a specialist unit in our district where children with severe behavior issues can be taught pretty much one on one. It may be that the boys are waiting for places in a similar unit in your area.

Is there a parallel class to your child's? Can your child move into that class?

it would be your fault sorry, not if.

In your position i would take the opportunity to talk to your DC about the fact that not everything in life is fair in the sense of the word the way a young child would see it, and to stop thinking in terms of 'fairness' or 'unfairness'. It's a naive way to view the world and a good way to get set in a negative way of viewing things.

Help your DCs to see that in terms of pure fairness it's them that are coming out on top as they are the ones with a loving family and a 'normal' upbringing.

Stop giving the OP a hard time. Anyone who works in education knows that there are individual children whose bad behaviour is seemingly rewarded. Actually, never mind the "seemingly", it IS being rewarded, in effect.
It is rubbish for other children within the class/es to have to endure the constant disruption and the atmosphere such children - who are often disturbed - can generate. I'm sure many children also feel it is grossly unfair that they should be punished for relatively minor misdemeanours when those individuals are not.
The OP should perhaps take a step back from her helping role - which would be a bit of a shame to say the least. That is not to say the "managing " of the behaviour will change.
I think parents have a perfect right to complain to the school, or to a local authority, if their children are having to put up with situations such as the OP describes.

What does your DC think. My DC has a child with behavioural difficulties in their class and they accept the double standard and they don't behave like that. (they wouldn't want to be like that).

I would only care if it affected the behaviour of the other children in the class. If it didn't I would accept it was part of a statement/management plan. Even if you work in the school you won't see this.

Really not sure how anyone could be identified from the Op's post. This is a scenario played out up and down the country.

I don't think YABU. I agree that some dc need extra support and help. I agree that some dc have needs with regards their behaviour. I agree that some dc may have come from extremely difficult backgrounds and have been neglected/abused.

However in this case there are no consequences for their actions. They are not learning that bad behaviour will result in a loss of golden time/playing time. They are learning that they can do what they want and still achieve the same results as the children who do abide by the rules.

I think it's grossly unfair on the other dc. I have been a parent helper (four years in total) and seen many children of varying backgrounds and there were special circumstances where some dc had certain rules that didn't affect the other dc but they still had to abide by the behaviour rules. So they may be allowed to sit at a desk and play with Lego when circle time was on but they were not allowed to disrupt circle time. In that case they would be treated the same as any other child with the loss of a star on the golden time chart.

I know that life isn't fair but at 10 years old, these children are seeing that actually bad behaviour still brings rewards and instead of 2 children learning from 23 well behaved children, you are actually witnessing 23 children learning from 2 badly behaved children.

This is why we don't have parent helpers in classrooms.

Really not sure how anyone could be identified from the Op's post

This does not matter.

You are required to not discuss what has happened in school - you are there to help, not observe.

The reason you don't know what's going on is that it's none of your business. If you don't like it find a new school for your sanctimony. Good luck with finding one that matches your delightful preconceptions of what a school should be

Delightful preconceptions of what a school should be like? What you mean a safe learning environment for your child? Nothing outlandish about that, and its affecting the OPs son. But I guess that doesnt matter to some people, its the bullies and the bad kids that matter eh?

How, pray, is the parent helper meant not to observe?

OP, l think you are NBU and l totally disagree with those who wish to not make a stand for an easy life rather than make punishments fair for everyone.

To those saying it is none of your business, if there is a disruptive child treated differently then it absolutely affects ALL the children who witness it....what are we teaching those children...if you behave badly you are rewarded, that there is a rule for one and a different set of rules for the rest?

I do think teachers have a very difficult job, but this is not the right way of handling this, ie by tiptoing around the children in question.

I would remove my child, as sadly there is no way l would expected them to accept this unfair bias on a daily basis.

To those slating the Op and suggesting she stop being a parent helper l am incredulous....the op gives up her free time to help kids ( not just her own) achieve.....and because she flags up frankly terrible management of two disruptive kids she is somehow in the wrong?

Op, l admire your efforts to help, both by being a school helper and considering the situation on here.

I don't think the post is identifying.

I suppose you might have to stop being a parent helper at some point if you get too emotionally involved or you cannot help yourself commenting to your own children.

Have you tried identifying and befriending the parents of these boys? Often the parents are convinced everyone is aganst them and there is a vicious circle that needs to be broken.

Appreciate that this is year 6 and they are new to town so it's almost too late, but I have had a lot of success with this.

Don't assume as a parent volunteer that you are privy to everything that goes on.

This with bells on.

I know the staff can't give personal details but it would make me feel better if the head teacher would say "we know certain pupils are causing difficulties, please be assured that we have a behaviour management plan in place to deal with it. We appreciate that it appears these kids get away with more, but we are concentrating on certain aspects of their behaviour at a time." Or something along those lines.

They won't do that. They will not discuss other children with you.

I worked in a school where you would have children that were like that, and one of the Ta's explained to me that because the children had such a horrendous homelife they were pandered to, the kids were fed in school ect. Now whilst I understand why she was like that these children have togo into the big wide world like everyone else and other people will not pander to them like that and in the long run it does them no favours.

However, if they copy behaviour seen at home,no respect ect and get a tough ride at home say for instance always being yelled at or whatever, then is it fair for them to get it at school for the way they are taught or copy at home?