to be thoroughly sick of the double standards

[teaandakitkat]

My son aged 10 is in a class of 25, 23 averagely well behaved kids, and two nightmare boys. They have both joined the school in the past year because they were permanently excluded from their last school.
I know they have crap, chaotic home lives, I know they are unhappy on the inside, I know all the other kids have way more advantages and are really the lucky ones. But I honestly am so sick of the double standards.

The teaching staff pander to them all the time. They can't control their behaviour. All normal sanctions don't apply to these kids . They have Golden Time free play on a Friday, if you misbehave during the week you lose it. Apart from these boys who never lose anything despite their behaviour. I honestly think the teachers are scared of them and scared of their reactions, they do anything to keep them quiet.

I'm a parent helper in the school and am often in the classroom. One of them called the teacher "a fat shit" and the teacher said "X, we don't speak like that in this classroom. Please don't speak for the next 5 minutes". The kid gave her the finger.
I've seen her send other kids to the head teacher and lose all their golden time for less than that. One of the kids challenged the teacher's blatantly unfair decision and she lost golden time for being cheeky!

There is half an hour on a Thursday where the kids are allowed outdoors if they have all their homework finished, if not they stay indoors and finish it before going out. Apart from these two boys, they have never done homework and are always outdoors.

Now I get that they need extra help, I get that they have no support at home with homework, but the blatant double standards are causing trouble. These kids know they are untouchable and brag about it to the others all the time. The others are getting seriously frustrated and I can see some of their behaviour getting worse as they try out more silly behaviour to see what they can get away with.

Last week my son and his friends were not allowed to take part in a school swimming lesson because of some stupid behaviour earlier in the week. Fair enough, I have no problem with that. But x and y were allowed to swim, despite one of them repeatedly kicking a football at a window until it broke earlier in the week. I was in school, I saw it. The teachers were scared to go up to him and stop him.

The head teacher is the only one who seems able to handle them but she's got an entire school to run, not spend all her time with this pair. If they are put out the class they go and spend the time with the head, helping her with whatever she's doing or sitting on a seat outside her door playing on the school iPad. (Again I've been in school, I've seen this on many many occasions, and heard them bragging to the other kids about the youtube videos they've been watching during class time)

I have mentioned it informally a couple of times but I think it's time for something more. It's not fair. If they need to make exceptions then surely they have to be more subtle. I know 3 other parents went to see the head teacher together but were just fobbed off with a story about 'inclusion' and the school's duty of care to everyone.

I'm not sure what sort of solution I'm looking for though. There are difficult people in all walks of life and that's part of life learning how to deal with them, right?

Would it help if they troublemakers were in different classes? I don't know why they were put in the same class in the first place, my instinct would be to split them up. Or will they not be able to separate them now because it would stigmatise them or something?

There is an extra teaching assistant in their class, not specifically assigned to these boys I don't think, but I'm sure she's there to support the teacher.

But at the end of the day why is it ok for one kid to call a teacher a fat shit in front of the whole class and have no sanction at all, or smash a window and get to sit outside the head's office watching YouTube? That can't be right.

So now I've got all that off my chest I'd be keen to hear if anyone has any practical suggestions for what I can do. I don't want to just go into school with yet another complaint. I feel for the staff, they're in a rubbish situation. But it's really really not fair on the others. Can anything be done?

Spartacus well to begin with,there is not a screening process before a child gets a place in a school. So you have no idea who might start in the new year,or even if you do (based on probability and area), there's nothing a school can do about it. The children get the place they get. Actually children in care and looked after have priority in most schools, because they are particularly vulnerable,regardless of potential issues. Also if a child is allocated a place,and the parents want their kid at that school whether that is the best thing for him or not,there's not a lot the school can do.
Do you honestly think we enjoy seeing children crying,crumbling,having meltdowns? That we enjoy being hit,sworn at,threatened,spat at? That if I walked a little bit faster I would've been hit in the head by a beam because a child threw something at it? That it's fun getting between two kids,knowing the risk but your priority is to keep everyone safe right now?

Spartacusx...you have totally nailed it

Sofedup you are right trauma is trauma. And I'm sorry if it seemed like i was implying theirs is worse. It's not a competition. It just seemed like you were trivialising a bit the whole "divorced parents,chaotic homelife" thing. Apologies if I misunderstood.

The truth is,you were failed. You were failed by the people that did not pick up on your cues. Been there,done that,got the scars.
We actually intervene/watch for kids that are too quiet,withdrawn,low self esteem etc even if their behaviour is exemplary.

RebelRogue Such a shame there is a lack of resources for ALL the kids. Wish there were some real answers for all the parents and kids involved here. Very sad. And of course it is possible that the school has tried everything. To be fair, in spite of my ranting and raving, it is possible that the kids the OP describes do have genuine mental health difficulties. I just doubt that the kids in my school did. More like temporary adjustment issues due to the situation at home. But I agree that this thread isn't about them or me. I just wante dto give a perspective of what it was like to be in a situation of bullying by "vulnerable" kids, who probably are fine now.

RebelRogue I wasn't minimising it, and I am really sorry if it came across that way. I am sure you weren't minimising my experiences either. but there is a difference between divorced parents trauma and PTSD type trauma. Bullying can and does cause actual PTSD. None of those kids at my school had PTSD. Because they weren't living in a life threatening situation, but a sad and confusing one.

Sofedup, it does sound like attachment disorder. And I have heard that attachment disorder in adults is sometimes diagnosed as BPD. Good
luck as you continue your journey and your healing. My hackles have risen on your behalf as you talk about how you are judged - drama queen etc. It just shows that we really don't know what is going on for anyone else and it is so hard not to make assumptions.

bless you Sikk and all the best to your son too. Thanks.

This isn't about passing the buck.

There is no money.

There are no resources.

There aren't enough staff.

There aren't enough specialised staff.

There aren't enough specialised placements.

It can take years to even see the right health professionals.

Even longer for therapy and support.

People have been screaming about this for years. Teachers, schools, parents, LEAs and charities. Nobody cares.

Far simpler to assume that poor behaviour is due to bad parenting "so why should that kid get better treatment than mine" and parents, teachers and ultimately the children themselves end up in an untenable situation where nobody wins, people get hurt and futures are dashed.

The problem is too massive to be solved by anything less than direct, sustained action from the top but I'm afraid helping children that aren't privileged isn't top of the agenda. Far better little Timmy has his new grammar school place then my son has any school place at all.

Sofedup once again I'm really sorry for everything you've been through,and what you have to deal with now as a result.

IF these two boys have been Pex'd from their previous school then your school will have been directed to take them. It's very unusual for 2 Pex'd children to be placed in the same year group, let alone the same class. I'm also very surprised that you know this detail. It's confidential.

I hope you've changed some details about this - as 2 permanently excluded pupils being placed into primary class is identifiable and you have no business sharing any of this. If you are there as a parent helper, for crying out loud, have s bit of respect for the position of trust you are in.

As I've already said, this is exactly why my HT refuses to have parent helpers in class.

user1490123259 Mon 27-Mar-17 19:15:40
Most classes I see are dominated by such children. Sometimes they outnumber the well behaved children in the class 3:1. It is an epidemic. The British education system is sinking under the weight of the sheer numbers of children who's "SEN" leaves them apparently unable to behave like normal human beings, and the teachers are frequently banned from doing or saying anything "negative" that might upset them.

We are expected to pander to their every whim.

One of my colleagues drove straight past the school today, instead of turning into the carpark. After a few miles she turned the car round and drove back to school and found herself driving straight past again She intended to go to school and teach, but found herself totally unable to. She went home. I doubt she will be in tomorrow. She's just reached breaking point, of abuse, aggression, defiance, powerlessness, and being unable to take two minutes of from "behaviour management" to teach the few children on her register who want to learn something,

Well done. That is the most foul post I have read on here and I've been on here for nearly a decade. Kids with 'SEN' unable to behave like normal human beings?????? Maybe change your vile attitude to children who are traumatised, neglected and/or disabled and you might get better outcomes.
Reported and I hope to god HQ remove it.

So why copy and paste the post then?
I think the inverted commas were meant to show that she feels there are some children/parents who are using an SEN label when they might perhaps be 'just' badly behaved or brought up.
But maybe I should let that poster speak for herself.

Soapbox has nailed it.

And the situation is only going to get worse, there are more cuts expected this year.

Not just in education but in healthcare, social care, council budgets.

So many young people are being failed massively, and it will have long term implications and cost us so much more in the long run. Don't think it won't affect you, we all have to share the same little island.

And if this bothers you, think long and hard about how you want this country to be run, and vote carefully.

A child has SEN if they have a special educational need as in provision above and beyond what is typically provided is needed. Regardless of the cause (and there are many genetic and environmental) that is a foul attitude for someone working with vulnerable children to have. 'Incapable of behaving like normal human beings' - are you actually defending that?

I have a child with autism, therefore genuine SEN. Frankly I see nothing offensive about user1490123259's posts and I hope they are allowed to remain.

Try telling there is enough money, resources and specialist staff to those who have spent large amounts of time and money fighting to get decent provision for their child with sen.
I'm sure some people say my severely disabled child is "unable to behave like a normal human being". They are ignorant cunts.

OP this article may give you a bit of insight.

Sorry!! Pushed send too soon!

ww2.kqed.org/mindshift/2016/06/06/how-trauma-informed-teaching-builds-a-sense-of-safety-and-care/

Trauma informed care/teaching isn't something I think directly happens in the UK (in terms of it being widespread and named as that), nevertheless some points might be insightful.

There have been some really good results in the US of targeting behaviour in the context of accepting that some children come to school highly stressed and dealing with that in caring ways.

It's time intensive for teachers though. And teachers only have so much time and energy.

I'm not sure what the solution is.

Well done. That is the most foul post I have read on here and I've been on here for nearly a decade. Kids with 'SEN' unable to behave like normal human beings?????? Maybe change your vile attitude to children who are traumatised, neglected and/or disabled and you might get better outcomes.
Reported and I hope to god HQ remove it.

I disagree.
I work in a primary school and every year it gets worse, the behaviour gets worse. More and more children are needing INA's, more and more children are violent and can't be controlled.
More and more is expected of the teachers with increasing class sizes, sometimes no support staff and violent and disobedient pupils.
These kids don't have SEN in an educational sense. They're deeply troubled and yes, they are pandered to because authorities make it almost impossible to exclude a child. You have to show you have jumped through huge number of hoops, you have to show you have supported the child in everyway you can, get involved esbas, education authorities etc etc. Meanwhile the rest of the class suffers, every one suffers.

There is a girl at my school who is so screwed up and violent that she is never in class, she has her own room, a large one at that, whilst we all scrabble around for space. She frequently physically attacks her helper. When she does this She is excluded for the rest of the day, maybe 2 days if the attack is very bad and has drawn blood, then she is back again. She is 9 and has been like this since she was 6. She is in a mainstream school.

There is no funding for behaviour units anymore, so whereas these children would have been removed from mainstream in previous decades, now they are thrown in with the rest. It is not appropriate for anybody.
School staff are having to learn to be therapists as well as all the other hats they wear.

Why do we automatically assume that every badly behaved child is disabled?

I am so glad my child is no longer in mainstream and now with people who understand that his behaviour is not chosen behaviour.

Because children generally don't choose to be violent. Extremes of behaviour like the 9 year old mentioned above are not normal and not a choice. Who would choose that? A solitary education and violence? My son does not choose his behaviour. He so wants to be 'good'. Fedup described it well how she reacted to her trauma as an adult. Nobody really knows anything about others. You simply can't say 'he has no sen'.

It's not about whether it is chosen behaviour, it is about whether the school has the resources to accommodate difficult behaviours and still teach everyone else.