To wonder why it's so transphobic here?

[user1490186326]

Really what's the big deal if a transwoman uses the women's toilets or changing rooms - they are women after all!

Can you not possibly imagine how hard it must be to be born into the wrong body? Imagine the pain and distress that must cause?

I have a friend who is a transwoman and she is the kindest most gentle soul you could ever meet so hearing her being referred to as a bloke in a dress or that she has a perverted fetish is just heartbreaking.

Can't we just show a little bit of empathy for these people who have been through so much pain already?

Don't you love it when analogies ... aren't?

I don't mind being hugged by friends inviting me to a child's birthday party.

I wouldn't like being punched playfully by a man that talks about his penis in an office environment either.

I don't think those two things match up in any way at all...

It's entirely inappropriate to discuss penis in an office environment and it constitutes sexual harassment, and if the employer fails to act it's creating a hostile environment for women. You do have legal protection as a woman (still).

thanks for the response on 'cis'.

So as someone who has a vagina, works in a male biased profession, wears trousers and no make up I am not 'cis' gendered anyway according to the current populist definitions. I mean I'd even take a penis out for a test drive were such a thing possible - the helicopter sounds like fun!

So noone is really 'cis' because noone conforms to ALL the gender stereotypes then?

You know, if I were a conspiracy theorist, I would wonder whether thhe whole trans thing was invented by the religious right to eliminate gay men and lesbians.

Don't be silly, OP.

I'd agree with that, Morphene.

It's almost like the trans people are equally uncomfortable with gender stereotypes, but their reasoning leads them to a very different place. They don't identify with the stereotype box they're in, and they assume that everyone else does (is 'cis') so they want to be in the other box and think they belong there. Gender-critical feminism says that the two boxes limit everyone - nobody is 'cis.'

That's trans people who believe in a gender binary, though. I get really confused by self-described 'non-binary' people who nonetheless want to label others as cis.

Son a bit too pretty and showing an interest in musical theatre? Daughter wants to cut her hair short and wear plaid shirts? Don't worry, Mr and Mrs. Born-Again. Just get them to swap clothes and Hey Presto, the problem's disappeared. Just an easily sortable medical condition,

Yes if a male colleague mentioned his penis I would feel that was sexual harassment. He sounds vile.

Do you know this current cis crap reminds me as a child in the 70s the 'Peter and Jane' books.

It was 'Peter likes trains, Boys like trains, Jane likes flowers, girls like flowers' I remember thinking that was crap aged 7 and it seems this bollocks is back.

Pink brain blue brain bollocks. Words fail me. Almost

Bertrand

Can I choose who I get undressed in front of and which genitals I see? If not, why not?
I dont care if its not a problem for you, I'm not talking about your feelings, get over it.

Article about the role of social services in unquestioningly promoting the whole transgender belief system. I hadn't realised that in the case of the seven year old boy removed from his mother's custody, social services had been supporting the mother.

www.transgendertrend.com/uk-court-case-exposes-social-services-in-thrall-to-transgender-orthodoxy/

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/custody-boy-living-as-girl-with-mother-awarded-to-father-high-court-judge-a7374761.html

Children are really not being protected in all this, are they?

BertrandRussell
I agree somewhat. I have quite a few religious right (USA) "friends" on my FB - ones who have fervently boycotted Beauty & The Beast for example. But they don't seem to be so keen to ostracise trans folk. I don't know what their "Biblical" justification for this view is but it seems so skew whiff.

I mean the absolute outrage over Beauty & The Beast being a "celebration of sin" and being "openly gay". I just keep going back to the feed in absolute astonishment at the aggressiveness in which they protest against homosexuality (but seem to ignore bestiality?) 😂

And I guess the astonishment at the importance of "Disney" as it really is all on the very periphery of our lives here in the UK. Maybe that's just because my DCs don't like Disney (nothing I did either way to influence them on that one as I wouldn't mind if they did) but that's an irrelevant point and I'm rambling.

And to be clear, I don't think anyone should ostracise trans people - ever. I just don't understand the disjointed beliefs. It's ok to transition your child but not ok for them to be gay. Isn't that somehow disjointed?

I imagine because there isn't a prohibition of being trans in the bible, but there is of being gay. Plus as a pp said, religious types might find it easier to believe in an extra-corporeal essence of a person (like a soul is) so the "born in the wrong body" narrative makes more sense.

Prawn and beyond made these comments, to give credit where it's due. I think it's a plausible explanation.

You know, if I were a conspiracy theorist, I would wonder whether thhe whole trans thing was invented by the religious right to eliminate gay men and lesbians.

It sure is effective.
Had anyone suggested that we sterilize lesbian and gay children before they even finish puberty without adding the whole trans make-believe nonsense to it, that would be protested, and rightly so, by any human rights group AND the LGB groups.

But call it "transition" and call the sterilization a side effect, and suddenly LGB groups are in favour of it. It's madness.

I mean the absolute outrage over Beauty & The Beast being a "celebration of sin" and being "openly gay".

Huh? Is there a new movie? I mean, the Disney version doesn't have any homosexuality in it that I remember.
(And why are they okay with the bestiality? And the fact that Belle lives with the Beast before marriage?)

I imagine because there isn't a prohibition of being trans in the bible, but there is of being gay.

Crossdressing is explicitly forbidden. So they have to twist their minds quite a lot to justify it with a gendered soul.

I think the idea of a woman 'soul' is becoming more common because the concept of a female brain in a male body (or vice versa) doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny.
Obviously the concept of a 'soul' doesn't either, so I expect another concept will evolve.

vestal apparently there is a new release of B& The Beast. I just googled and it the boycott in the USA clearly had very little impact. (except on my FB feed obviously!)

An acquaintance helpfully outlined the "gay" scenes to help other people make their minds up whether or not to allow their children to be exposed to this "horror" and I couldn't understand that any of the scenes were "openly gay" (whatever the fuck that means) and apparently one of the "gay" scenes is when a man is delighted that he's been attacked by having women's clothing thrown at him? (I haven't seen the movie) Which seems to be less gay and more trans these days...but I'm not the one to make the call on that really.

Anyway, I don't understand the outrage and I really do think that Bertrand is on to something upthread.

I think you are probably right, venus about the soul idea.

I did mention that they'd overlooked the bestiality but my point fell on deaf ears. Is bestiality forbidden in the bible?

That's it Morphene, yes. I am a man much of the time on that basis. And the other problem for me is that as one of the good columnists said, the concept only works if you assume/confine everyone else to their gendered box/prison - or there is nothing to "trans" over. Much better to tear the walls down than reinforce them for all but a favoured few.

Here... Enjoy

www.facebook.com/groups/1722756661380462/?ref=ts&fref=ts

I did mention that they'd overlooked the bestiality but my point fell on deaf ears. Is bestiality forbidden in the bible?'

If it isn't, then that's because it was assumed people knew that it was a no go.

Granted, I would not consider it bestiality, because the beast is sentient, and therefore ethical problems with sexual assault on creatures not able to consent don't apply

But those religious extremists throw a tantrum about men dancing with other men (that's what the alleged gay scene is about), you'd expect they'd see the elephant beast in the room, yeah.

Whatever the motivations of the OP I'm grateful for the thread. For a couple of personal reasons trans-issues have been on my mind recently and I must have missed those earlier threads so to those who feel it's been done to death but still post I want to say thank you. I've learnt a lot and you have put into words some instinctive protests I've been feeling. I've c&p a number of really insightful posts.

One of the reasons it's been on my mind is my 85yr old good friend's granddaughter, who described herself lesbian in her teens, has more lately declared herself male and has recently had surgery to make the transition to male. She still is attracted to women obviously. She also has bi-polar and an eating disorder and it's been very fraught for the whole family. I've felt completely out of my depth supporting my friend - for whom it's been a lot to get her head around, she is lovely and trying hard to be 'modern' and supportive to all - but who believes it's a symptom of her grandchild's mental health issues but daren't say anything. I'm not sure I'm any better placed to advise but thank you.