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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why it's so transphobic here?

403 replies

user1490186326 · 22/03/2017 12:48

Really what's the big deal if a transwoman uses the women's toilets or changing rooms - they are women after all!

Can you not possibly imagine how hard it must be to be born into the wrong body? Imagine the pain and distress that must cause?

I have a friend who is a transwoman and she is the kindest most gentle soul you could ever meet so hearing her being referred to as a bloke in a dress or that she has a perverted fetish is just heartbreaking.

Can't we just show a little bit of empathy for these people who have been through so much pain already?

OP posts:
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MercyMyJewels · 23/03/2017 11:20

"A trans woman has it much harder than a cisgendered woman"

Fuck off with Cis. I am not Cis. I am a woman. I am not a subset of women. I do not identify as a woman. I do not feel like a woman. I am a woman due to MY BIOLOGY.

Also. try reading this thread and tell me how easy it is to be a woman

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2884837-AIBU-to-say-that-the-vast-majority-of-women-are-sexually-assaulted-at-some-point-poss-trigger

WoodPigeonInFlight · 23/03/2017 11:22

Whosrightsareright

Thanks for your posts. I agree it's a really complex issue which people need to engage brain with an open mind to address - not just shout "transphobe" at anyone who presents a different perspective.

MercyMyJewels · 23/03/2017 11:23

Wish I could find the quote from @Glosswitch, but to paraphrase:

So many genders, but somehow we all know which half of the population wipes the arses and scrubs the floors

jellyfrizz · 23/03/2017 11:23

But just for a moment imagine what it's like to dispise your gender and the body you were born with. To look in the mirror everyday and be hurt by what you see.

Many women hate their bodies and despise the gender roles society expects them to live up to.

venusinscorpio · 23/03/2017 11:26

I get it when it comes to women's rights and how how hard you all think it is to be a woman.

Yes, it sounds totally like you "get" how other women feel Hmm

Here's an idea, before preaching to others, perhaps you should have a go at examining your internalised misogyny?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 23/03/2017 11:27

Really there is no need to use the term Cis a woman is an adult human female everyone knows what you mean when you use the term woman

The term trans is needed as a transwomen isn't a woman the are not and never can be an adult human female as you are unable to change biology

And as for who has had he more difficult time well the experience of every women is different as we are individuals

BertrandRussell · 23/03/2017 11:29

Is it transphobic to say that a 90 year old woman in a care home should not have to have her bottom washed by a 6ft care assistant with a beard who identifies as a woman if she doesn't want to?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 23/03/2017 11:31

A trans woman has it much harder than a cisgendered woman.

Bollox.

And don't call me 'cis'.

venusinscorpio · 23/03/2017 11:34

This is an argument about why women should have to ignore their own boundaries and feelings, and why society considers them utterly unimportant and not even worth considering.

It is a huge women's rights issue.

BertrandRussell · 23/03/2017 11:35

Venus. Absolutely.

itsmine · 23/03/2017 11:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhereYouLeftIt · 23/03/2017 11:43

SansComic Thu 23-Mar-17 09:45:15
[quoting another poster] gender confused teens

Was that deliberately so condescending and patronising?

Why is this condescending and patronising? The teenaged years are when most of us become aware of our sexuality and it is a confusing time. Wondering if we are homosexual because we find x attractive, wondering if we are asexual because it all seems so daunting, scared because of how older men are looking at us. A bit of a shit time all round. Add in the publicity given to trans, the awareness that you're gender-non-conforming (newsflash - nobody matches the gender sterotypes, they're fantasy), the sheer barrage of social media applying pressure to pout like a duck or become a six-packed gym bunny; the surprise is that any teenagers are NOT gender confused.

MercyMyJewels · 23/03/2017 11:43

"This is an argument about why women should have to ignore their own boundaries and feelings, and why society considers them utterly unimportant and not even worth considering."

Venus has it ^^

morningrunner · 23/03/2017 11:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 23/03/2017 11:45

"Tbf there are lots of 6 foot care assistants with beards both in care homes and hospitals, not sure it matters what they identify as, as long as they do their job well."

It might matter very much to the 90 year old I mentioned. But I suppose being both a woman and old she can be doubly ignored.

Gallavich · 23/03/2017 11:48

But just for a moment imagine what it's like to dispise your gender and the body you were born with. To look in the mirror everyday and be hurt by what you see

Like most teenage girls and lots of adult women then? Being female under patriarchy is all about physical appearance and not matching up to ideals. The cosmetic surgery industry monestises female self hatred and persuades them into mutilating their bodies to fit a physical ideal.

A trans woman has it much harder than a cisgendered woman

I often read that. I have never had any satisfactory explanation as to why though. I think it's bollocks myself.

venusinscorpio · 23/03/2017 11:48

No, I'm not suggesting "forcing" them to do anything. If it was seen as unacceptable for them to use female bathrooms a third solution would have to be offered and women's dignity would be respected. It's not women's responsibility to resolve. They are male. Why don't women's feelings matter?

SansComic · 23/03/2017 11:50

WoodPigeonInFlight

Some nutter on the internet means nothing. You are however aligning yourself with a another very popular youtuber called Bearing who likes to make video arguments towards SJWs and Feminists (the type who do normal feminists no favours). I discovered all of them on my phone when my laptop died so I couldn't work but I had free wifi on a long flight.

A list of individual acts is likewise fairly insignificant like someone (or a small number) objecting to people wearing pussy hats. FWIW, that was pretty gross as were placards 'taking back' the word 'cunt'.

I know nothing about the other thing you mentioned (lesbian talk being stopped) but again, these are minority occurrences. Lots of feminists do things I suspect that you don't want to be aligned with but that doesn't mean they are all bad.

morningrunner

I don't worry about being attacked on the internet Smile

Really what's the big deal if a transwoman uses the women's toilets or changing rooms - they are women after all!

I wouldn't have a problem if a genuine transwoman wanted to share a women's toilet. They're cubicles anyway. I might do a doubletake if I saw feet in the next cubicle with toes pointing toward the bowl whilst they pee'd.

I'm fairly 'meh' about changing rooms too but I am a drop-the-towel-and-get-dressed person as opposed to ridiculously trying to do it all and hold a towel around myself too. I suspect that transwomen rather avoid being seen with their meat and two veg hanging out too.

Women's refuges are about the only aspect I have read about that I understand is a tricky subject. As I said, each life is as important as the next. Women in these places are lowest of the low and their feelings should be spared as opposed to making one transperson feel accepted there.

A single weightlifter isn't the start of the end of women in sports, nor is Caster Semenya.

So, no, I don't see what the big deal is. I think transwomen with malicious or questionable intent are so, so, so few that important things should be being discussed instead. Huntly, for example, should simply be shot. As that isn't allowed any more, if s/he is going to be housed with similar child abusers of either sex or gender, I don't really care too much what happens to any of them - not enough to make me forget more pressing issues.

I think that a transwoman police officer would be last in line for training for rape case handling. Transwomen would struggle to get whatever training or certification or a job based on it as a sexual assualt evidence taker too. This is not discrimination in my eyes. This is due to practicalities of employment.

No, I don't think they are women because they want to be. I think they are in the wrong body. They have a brain which tells them they should have been in a female body. They're a 3rd category.

tl;dr

I don't think trans people are eroding women's rights.

I don't think they're real women.

I think that calling them dangerous is disingenuous and statistically they need help more than to be treated with fear.

I can think of very, very few cases where their transness is is an issue. In certain areas of employment they could be held back but I see this no different as me not getting a role in customer services because I'm bolshy and struggle to bite my tongue.

SansComic · 23/03/2017 11:53

@whereyouleftit

newsflash - nobody matches the gender sterotypes, they're fantasy

I thought many complained that people do fall into gender stereotypes but that this is due to the evil patriarchy.

Why is this condescending and patronising?

Would you say to your child, "no, you're not gay, you're just confused"? Many people used to.

venusinscorpio · 23/03/2017 11:59

A single weightlifter isn't the start of the end of women in sports, nor is Caster Semenya.

It's not a "single weightlifter". Showing your total ignorance.

morningrunner · 23/03/2017 12:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

venusinscorpio · 23/03/2017 12:03

In the short term however (people need to pee safely and feel safe when peeing NOW) why can't we have gender neutral and female only facilities rather then men's and women's?

If men are happy with that then fine. I suspect they won't be though.

MercyMyJewels · 23/03/2017 12:03

Sans
So you are at pains to say that you don't mind male bodied people in women's changing rooms etc. Does that mean the rest of us are moaning about nothing should STFU? Does your opinion mean more than mine or other women who do care and do mind

venusinscorpio · 23/03/2017 12:04

It would be nice to give men a reason to think about it though!

venusinscorpio · 23/03/2017 12:05

Who cares what Sans thinks. I certainly don't.