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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I am Spartacus

310 replies

disfasia · 21/03/2017 22:15

I am posting this here since "Am I being unreasonable?" is only a phrase that a female would ask herself. Women are socialised to concede to men, to institutional pressures, and to ask "Am I being unreasonable?" I am posting here because I know I am not. And this is my protest to MNHQ for censoring women's language, for telling us that the only way to refer to a man who lays claim to be a woman is to call him "she", to call him a "woman." But he is not a woman.

In the past ten days, three different transwomen have been sentenced to prison or arrested for rape or murder of women. Just today a rapist of two children was transferred to a female prison. These are men who commit these crimes and the whitewashing of history and the pressuring of women by MNHQ to say "she", deleting comments when we respectfully disagree and point out scientific evidence, as clear in science as the earth's rotation around the sun. And I am sick of it.

I am sick of the harassment of women who say, "No" to male violence. And make no mistake MNHQ, what you are doing to women on this matter is pure unadulterated violence. You worry more about the feelings of males than women who have, statistically speaking, been victimised by male violence.

If you expect women to come to this website and generate movement for you, you need to understand that in a week where Ian Huntley wants to become a woman, where Jessica Winfield (AKA Martin Ponting) another rapist is housed with women, where Texas is facing a lawsuit from three different prisoners who have been subjected to rape at the hands of another trans prisoner, and the recent sentencing of Kayleigh Woods for the murder of Bethany Hill, her really need to understand that women know the difference between a man and a woman. No, we don't need men telling us to address them as a woman. Nor should MNHQ bei so inclined. This is an open-debate and trans "identity" is up for debate because it is a feeling, not a reality. You cannot oblige women to see the world in a delusory way simply because that individual is delusional or confirmed in his "belief."

MN needs to be a space where women are free to interact honestly, where biology is not written off as unimportant. Rape is very much connected to the biology of males. MNHQ needs to allow for women to set their own boundaries in their own language. We should not be coerced or pressured in any way to goose step with delusional ideologies where the body is irrelevant. This is Mumsnet which exists precisely because the body IS relevant.

This is a revolution.

OP posts:
sonyaya · 21/03/2017 22:18

What is MNHQ "doing to women on the matter"? Genuine question

dailyshite · 21/03/2017 22:19

You lost me at '"Am I being unreasonable?" is only a phrase that a female would ask herself'

WhiskyIrnBru · 21/03/2017 22:21
Biscuit
OnionKnight · 21/03/2017 22:21

"Am I being unreasonable?" is only a phrase that a female would ask herself.

What utter, flaming bollocks.

WombOfOnesOwn · 21/03/2017 22:22

MNHQ doesn't let women determine their own definition of woman. Instead, we are told there is a prescriptivist, empty definition of "a woman is anyone who calls themselves a woman," turning woman into a meaningless phrase.

Posts are deleted for making the issue clear. Anything that doesn't tiptoe around and try to give the benefit of the doubt to non-men-identifying people with penises is deleted. The idea that a woman could decide many of these people are fetishists is apparently appalling and terrible, with even research links deleted.

Even in this post, I am having to double check my language to make sure that I am using MN-friendly terminology instead of doing anything that would refer to people with penises as being unambiguously male.

It's a form of gaslighting and it's cult-like social pressure. You can't just make language changes by demanding that "woman" is suddenly defined differently and expect everyone to be on board.

VestalVirgin · 21/03/2017 22:25

I am Spartacus, too.

It's a form of gaslighting and it's cult-like social pressure. You can't just make language changes by demanding that "woman" is suddenly defined differently and expect everyone to be on board

Exactly.

DontFeedTheTrolls · 21/03/2017 22:25
Biscuit
BeyondUser24601 · 21/03/2017 22:26

What did I miss?

I do agree with the suggestion that men generally don't have the same self doubt that would lead to "am I being unreasonable" questioning, btw. They are socialised to believe they are right.

Heratnumber7 · 21/03/2017 22:29

I am also Spartacus.

Well said OP

PippaPepperpot · 21/03/2017 22:35

I, too, am Spartacus. You can never make me call a person with a penis anything other than a man. I am a woman. I am Spartacus.

WombOfOnesOwn · 21/03/2017 22:42

There is a board online I am part of where women can let down their hair and use all the male pronouns they want for male people.

When they come there, they are often overwhelmed initially, even crying with relief. They had all thought they were going mad. The world around them seemed to suddenly not make sense, and reality itself seemed like it was malleable to the whims of specific people.

Finding a place where they can simply speak their minds no filter, no tiptoeing, no making sure no one is offended has helped many of the women in the group to blossom and grow. It is hard to grow when you feel the world is becoming crazy around you, or perhaps that you have gone crazy in it.

This is why I say it is gaslighting: the women who emerge from parts of the internet where their speech on this issue is curtailed feel exactly like women who experience gaslighting in their relationships. The dizzy realization that you might not have been going crazy, that other people share the same objective reality as you, feels like coming out of a fog that was destroying your mind.

SisterMoonshine · 21/03/2017 22:42

I concur.
And I have gone completely off the idea if using preferred pronouns. It only encourages the delusion. I use 'they' even if it sounds clunky, because I don't want to be violent.

ExitPursuedByUser54321 · 21/03/2017 22:45

If like to comment but unfortunately I am not allowed to.

IllBeBackmaybe · 21/03/2017 22:54

It's a form of gaslighting and it's cult-like social pressure. You can't just make language changes by demanding that "woman" is suddenly defined differently and expect everyone to be on board.

Yes so much to this. And to this.

This is an open-debate and trans "identity" is up for debate because it is a feeling, not a reality. You cannot oblige women to see the world in a delusory way simply because that individual is delusional or confirmed in his "belief."

BeyondUser24601 · 21/03/2017 22:56

Not allowed to, exit?? Confused

BeyondUser24601 · 21/03/2017 22:56
VestalVirgin · 21/03/2017 23:00

There is a board online I am part of where women can let down their hair and use all the male pronouns they want for male people.

Sounds wonderful.

This is why I say it is gaslighting: the women who emerge from parts of the internet where their speech on this issue is curtailed feel exactly like women who experience gaslighting in their relationships. The dizzy realization that you might not have been going crazy, that other people share the same objective reality as you, feels like coming out of a fog that was destroying your mind.

It is horrible that this gendernonsense gained enough traction to make some people actually doubt their own perceptions.

I mean, it is so fucking obvious, it is like we are asked to pretend that the sky is yellow and the moon is made of green cheese.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/03/2017 23:00

'Woman' is still defined as an adult female human being. 'Female' is still defined as of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs. Therefore, 'woman' means, an adult of the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs.

As a rationalist and pedant, I'd logically have to be Spartacus even if I wasn't also a feminist.

ExitPursuedByUser54321 · 21/03/2017 23:01

I've been warned.

QueenArseClangers · 21/03/2017 23:04

I totally agree OP.

I am Spartacus.

PageNowFoundFileUnderSpartacus · 21/03/2017 23:06

Well said OP.

As my username suggests, I too am Spartacus.

QueenArseClangers · 21/03/2017 23:07

And my DH is totally in agreement.
I'm all for being polite and kindness run through my morals like ore but I'm not being thrown under the bus of male privilege any longer.

BeyondUser24601 · 21/03/2017 23:08

Oh dear Shock hopefully mnhq won't have a problem with you just checking in and agreeing, I can't see how that would be a problem...?

I can't get past the parallel with religion. Imagine if all posts that stated disbelief in a god were deleted, because 'someone' has decided that existance of god is now actual fact and not a belief system. It would be bonkers.

DickToPhone · 21/03/2017 23:08

It's interesting that, say, Pistonheads, which probably has the same (but reverse) gender balance as Mumsnet doesn't feel the same compunction to not to offend anyone. www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=1658529

BeyondUser24601 · 21/03/2017 23:09

Bonkers that is not supported by actual science or any laws (yet)