To be fucking furious this is happening to women's sports

[Bambambini]

For all those who think trans politics doesn't affect you or your daughters - please read this article of a male forcing women out of their sport and the authorities are letting this happen. If you don't give a shiney shit about this incident - what exactly will it take for you to sit up and take notice and start saying enough.

m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11821399

the IOC committee was discussed on another thread:

stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

16 people referenced
Women are:
Maria Jose Martinez Patino - had Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and failed a gender test so not allowed to compete in 1986
Joanna Harper - trans woman, medical physicist
Angelica Linden Hirschberg- appears to be a psychiatrist/psychologist with an interest in gender identity and the sexed body
Rania Elwani - member of Egyptian Olympic swimming team

...so, thats 11 men, 1 transwoman, 1 intersex and just 3 XX women

nicely balanced then

Yes... intersex and trans representatives absolutely fine, it's the discrepancy between the numbers of men and women which is objectionable - but unfortunately I suspect reflects the importance given to women in sports.

Just to say that, no, I am not bitter about being in different level teams when my level becomes different, or better players arrive (male or female).

What I used to find distressing was a club system that allowed me to play in the elite session while my DH was in the intermediates when we were exactly the same level of performance. We played each other a lot and hence we were always equally balanced. But I got to be in elites because I was better for a woman than he was for a man.

I much prefer my current clubs system of letting everyone play everyone and people find their own comfortable level regardless of sex.

Obviously this isn't a contact sport but tbh I think paying people money to get beaten up is a shit concept whether it is boxing or rugby. I'd rather not gain entertainment value from people risking brain damage.

Trans are estimated to be about 2% of the population, yes (so I'd roughly estimate split equally into Mtt and ftt, being 1% of each)? and intersex less than 1%?

Yet we have 6% Mtt, 6% intersex, 18% female and 68% male.

How fair.

I also think it should probably be stated explicitly that the Mtt and the person with AIS are both genetically male.

So biologically it is 18% female to 82% male.

CaroleService you are right, the choice for gay men in Iran is terrible. Flee the country, have surgery to look 'like a woman' or be killed.

On the matter of women's sport, well, I recon it'll be dead in a few years, why would girls train and train only to be beaten by a male.

It's very sad, and the laws mean that setting up sports just for women may be illegal, so we need someone with a good legal brain to cut through this bullshit and point out that SEX segregation is there for a reason and you cannot change sex.

"Trans are estimated to be about 2% of the population, yes (so I'd roughly estimate split equally into Mtt and ftt, being 1% of each)? and intersex less than 1%?"

This is not true. Not at all. 2% is some bollocks number made up by transadvocates including people with polycystic ovaries.

morning no I don't think the paralympics make sense. There is constant regrading and assessments and people being told they aren't disabled enough or in the right ways to compete. When the races occur the margins of victory are often huge because the variation between people with the same disability can be immense. People who trained hard for years are suddenly put out of contention by grading changes.

The bits that do make sense to me are where you have an entirely different sport that is only played by people with a certain disability. eg. wheel chair races, or blade races, wheelchair rugby etc.

I don't understand why this person isn't embarrassed to be competing against women. They know they have a massive unfair advantage and any victory is completely hollow

this, I am actually in agreement on this one. I cant see it continuing as feminism aside it completely lacks common sense and fairness

I didn't say unnecessary - I said fundamentally flawed as a concept.

As it turns out the olympics are, if you are going to let anyone who believes themselves to be female compete in a different class.

I've seen people with disabilities playing my chosen sport against the able bodied (usually either weaker or beginners). I'm not sure what the problem is.

Its highly unlikely the best player in the club is either female or disabled, but everybody gets a game that matches their abilities, so who gives a shit who the 'best' is?

Amazing how quickly the transactivists turned up on this thread isn't it? You might almost think they are waiting.

A man who has dressed as a woman and considers herself a woman is one thing. Competing with a male body and bigger skeleton and muscle mass is something else.

It's like sticking an able bodied runner in with athletes who have physical disabilities and then excluding one of the physically disabled to make room. Far from an equal race.

stop "I cant see it continuing as feminism aside it completely lacks common sense and fairness..."

I hope you are right but I fear you are not.

Black is white, night is day. Fairness is everyone getting what they want, isn't it? And if everyone can't get what they want then in society it is the men getting what they want!

So these men want to compete against women, they want to achieve by cheating and they don't give a fuck about anyone's feelings. They get their picture in the paper and a medal or a cup and maybe money and fame and they don't give a shiny shit if it is fair.

Sport holds no real interest for me at all, except martial arts, but I can still see how amazingly unfair this is.

If I, as a total sports novice, can see that these massively tall strapping men have an advantage over the women they are competing against - why cannot the so-called professionals?

There are none so blind as those who will not see! The emperor is stark bollock naked!

I think the wheelchair 800m is a sport, I think double amputee blade running is a sport.

I think having a 100m race for people with DS is bonkers because the people within that category are so very differently affected by it.

I think most sports (that don't involve physical violence) can be played inclusively with beginners, intermediates, women, men, children, people with disabilities all finding their own level.

As an adult I've played (and lost) to a talented 13 yo and my only gripe with it was that the score line was so one sided. They should have been paired against someone better than me!

Morphine* "Its highly unlikely the best player in the club is either female or disabled, but everybody gets a game that matches their abilities, so who gives a shit who the 'best' is?"

I have little interest in competitive sports but that is the point of them, who the best is!

The fact you know the women and disabled players won't win if matched against able-bodied or male players. Does that mean women and disabled people are shit at sport? Not worth watching? No of course it doesn't. But for the same reason that on sports day the foundation class are not competing against Year 6 or the teachers, sports are meant to be fairly matched.

"As an adult I've played (and lost) to a talented 13 yo and my only gripe with it was that the score line was so one sided. They should have been paired against someone better than me!"

Was this at an Olympic sport? In the Olympics? Or was it for 'fun'? I;m guessing it was for fun so the main aim for the game was to be... fun.

But competitive professional or semi professional or amateur organised sports, as well as being fun, are also for competition.

I think having a 100m race for people with DS is bonkers because the people within that category are so very differently affected by it.

I know this is a tangent, but do you mean Down's Syndrome? I've actually never seen a person with Downs competing at the Paralympics, although I know there are classifications that incorporate people with learning difficulties. I think the Special Olympics is for people with Downs, although it's not really a well known global event, admittedly.

As for Paralympic classification, it's quite interesting how it's done but it's not a perfect system, because even within a classification there can be a lot of variation when it comes to the strengths and weaknesses of the competitors.

Anyway, tangent over

I think having a 100m race for people with DS is bonkers

But presumable the competitors in that race don't think so.