School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

granny, you keep saying 'no adult would accept that', I would and have. I was bullied, quite severely and felt no malice towards the perpetrators. I did not understand their motivations and assumed their was something wrong with them but had no desire for any revenge, or even their punishment, in particular. I just wanted them to stop.

How do you expect them (the perpetrators) to behave any better if they don't understand the reasons to do so and there is no incentive for them to behave any better? Could you understand how not acknowledging any of their good behaviour, so all that is in store for them is punishment, would cause even greater anger and resentment leading to even worse behaviour?

I am pragmatic. I just want what works. Putting some people aside as 'beyond helping' does not.

I get your anger but realistically it does no good to equate all SENs and behavioural problems with premeditated violence. A lot of violent behaviour, in the context of SNs, occurs due to sensory overload. For example sudden extreme loud noises can trigger a physical fearful 'flight or fight' response in some (a bit like what happens in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or 'Shell Shock'). Simple Ear Defenders can help here.

If you can't imagine it you could probably visit a SS

I worked in one for 10 years.

If you are prioritising children who are miffed over children who have additional needs you are not being fair at all.

Minimising again. I would prioritise a child pinched by another over any other child in my class. The feelings of that child matter more than any other at that time. "Miffed" at being badly hurt? What's the matter with you that you think that kind of description is ok? Why are you minimising the feelings of children badly hurt by others?

*punched

zzzzz
Easy to say that but I know for a fact as a mainstream teacher (with a background in alternative education) I dont have anywhere close to the training required to teach a special school class. Fact.
My friends who do have done additional training, some have done SEN masters or the SENCo course before moving. It would be ridiculous to suggest (as some on thsi thread have) that mainstream staff have the same level of training as special school staff. Staff are trained uo in differebt areas. In my mainstream school (obviously generalised a little as its online) we have an SEN base, additional support for SEMH issues, a team of mentors, 20 different langauges spoken, 1/4 of students are disadvantaged. Another local school has all that and a behaviour isolation unit on site (because the local PRU is full so they have to find a way to cope on site). We have a huge number of children who are classed as very able too. No single mainstream teacher can be a specialist in all those areas.

Plus, special schools are specifically deisgned to accomodate a wide range of needs e.g. break out spaces, sensory rooms, funding can be allocated to support staff rather than other services mainstream runs. Theres also fewer teaching staff in special schools. (There's 15 teachers in my mainstream department).

Only pointing out that comparing special schools to mainstream is like apples and oranges.

Perhaps watery is thinking more like an independent specialist school zzzz 6 kids, 1 teacher, 3 or 4 TAs Of course the support is outstanding it's just the fight to get your child there that nearly kills and half bankrupts you

DixieNormas
We cross posted. But just want to say in advance I dont think special schools have it easier. I think both sectors are challenging but its important to acknowledge that theyre not really comparable (as some people on here are using the fact their DC has better education suppoet in SS as proof that mainstream is rubbish. Its not. Its just that SS can be the right environment dor some children and others its right to stay in mainstream).

Emotions and special needs aside, at schools there always be the bright stars (they will shine no matter what), there will be teachers' pets, and there will be "naughties" who suck up the attention. Its those who are in the middle who get the shit end of the stick. Academic achievements too mediocre to praise, good behavior taken for granted and any slightest misdemeanour harshly punished. But you know what - its is fun to misbehave.

As for bullies, i don't care. I only resent my parents for not teaching me to fight back.
Rant over.

My kids go to s small village school. I remember dd1 asking why boy got a smiley for sitting on the carpet quietly when she did that every day with no recognition. Fast forward to year 5, still the same band of trouble makers

Just goes to show this current system of mollycoddling the naughty ones isn't working.

no-one seems to realise that quiet kids can have serious problems at home, not to mention the bullying from the naughty kids that they are expected to put up with.

You're right. A lot of quiet children with problems probably get overlooked.
It's not always the loud 'naughty' ones who need attention.

This is why I think the system is flawed. The disruptive child's needs are getting met. However, a lot of quiet, well-behaved children (with hidden problems) are no doubt slipping through the net and aren't getting rewarded and ecnouraged.

This is why I think the system is flawed.

So what's the answer?

Dixie I think if you find a good and inclusive mainstream it's like striking gold. Dd was incredibly happy. We weren't in catchment but the statement sorted that.

As an early contributor to this thread and seeing how it's now evolving just want to add: completely without criticism to any other poster, I am so relieved that Ds and I are nearly at the end of the 'Education Period' - we've done ok (I use "we" deliberately), just some GCSEs next year and we become free - free of the constant debate about what is best for 'ds/us/me,etc'. - yes we/I had a choice a long time ago to opt out and be free, I chose to give ds the freedom to choose between 'existing systems' and that there are alternatives that can be considered and created. 'Education' is a constant found in more forms than the 'childhood' format.

My format/system: There is more than this for you (ds). You are more than 'they' describe, but my child it is always good to learn the main systems and how to appear to be part of it, then you can be the Man you are.

We are so nearly there.

If you have any understanding of neurological difference you will be aware of the acute distress a child would need to be under to lash out.

Lashing out and bullying is completely different things.

zzzz - it is so totally exhausting. Not suggesting to you or anyone but what helped me through the times...the darkest, this can't be happening, my child, my child...why is this happening times...I compared our existence to the previously unimaginable experiences that people had gone through and go through, the worst that we can only know because a few survived or continue to survive to tell us about it. It gave me s bit of balance to rationalize things. Extreme, but for us, it worked.

There is a way through this for all, just find the way that works to get yourselves through, who cares what others think. Make it out and help the others through. Survival.

And for those on the outside looking in, debating, working out and suggesting the best ways...earning your living out of us, publishing academic and journalistic articles about us , researching us, categorizing us. Fitting us into your systems. Good luck to you, great, thanks and all.

But if you don't mind - we'll be shifting on out soon. DS of course might well become highly qualified in 'your' fields - the world is his Oyster after all - and might yet articulate something that none of us have thought of yet.

Your mainstream NT child might do too, or anyone's child.

It's a mistake to think the child who is hurt is the most needy in the moment (and I say that as the mother of the non violent child).

No it isn't. A child badly hurt by another in a deliberate act (not lashing out) needs instant reassurance from the nearest adult. And medical attention, often. If enough adults are in the classroom then a teacher doesn't have to make a choice about which child needs support. I make no apology for choosing the child in pain and bewildered by an unprovoked attack.