School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

Rock speculated about the nature of the thump, so I explained further.

So the incident in question occurred some time ago, Watery?

It might not be terribly relevant to what is happening in schools today, regarding behaviour and reward policies. Much has changed. I can remember some gross unfairnesses in my own schooling, not least being hit by more than one teacher! This for failing to understand work in Juniors and not changing quickly enough in Reception!

Feeling jealous is something that children should be taught to deal with not protected from

I've already said it isn't jealousy. It's perceived unfairness.

What do you do when a child feels it's "unfair" that their friend in a wheelchair gets to sit at the front of assembly?

Never heard of it happening. So I doubt it ever has. Weird that you think it might.

I'm all in favour of rewards, I know they sometimes work very well. However, I would not reward a child in the same week that they had behaved violently. I would talk to them and tell them I could see they had tried hard with - and -. Then I would ask them what had not been so good that week, and they would tell me because they know they shouldn't hit.

There's probably reasoning behind these 'parties'. As a pp has already said, they probably help these children to integrate or to learn how to share etc.
However, I can totally see this from a child's point of view. How every week no matter how badly behaved some children may be, they'll still get to miss some lesson time to have this party. That's all a child will see and it's hardly an incentive for them to continue behaving.
It's a tricky situation because these 'naughty' children sometimes have underlying issues, but other children can and do quickly learn that if that continue to act up they could also get these 'rewards'. Personally, I can't see this approach working out in the long run.

What I meant was that many accommodations could be interpreted as envy inducing, and perhaps the difficulty you are having in seeing why we shouldn't change the support for a disadvantaged child because another child doesn't like it is because you don't give significant weight to the needs of the child with behavioural difficulties?

How many more times? It isn't envy. You seem not to understand that, yet criticise my lack of perception as you see it. It isn't just a case of another child "not liking it". How unreasonable of you to minimise and think their feelings don't matter because they are NT.

I always gave weight to those with behavioural difficulties, except where violence was involved. I was very clear that violence would not be rewarded. Not sure why you think that's so wrong.

Then I would ask them what had not been so good that week, and they would tell me because they know they shouldn't hit.

Hahahahaha. It must be lovely in your oversimplistic world.

DS wouldn't. He has no understanding of cause and effect yet and even if he did, the mere act of thinking about it would induce such shame, he would simply shut down and not answer the question.

To be fair, Watery, I doubt very much violence is being rewarded. The reward will be for some degree of positive behaviour. For some children with serious behavioural problems some degree violence can still occur alongside some really good progression overall in their positive behaviours. The violence might even occurred due to known triggers not been sufficiently acknowledged and sufficiently prevented.

If you believe positive behaviour must always be acknowledged (in essence it is what posters are complaining needs to happen more for NT children), to ignore it would be unfair because of an instance of negative behaviour. The negative behaviour should be dealt with separately.

I agree with NT children getting rewards too, appropriate to their level of challenge. Where I suspect we might differ, is how accepting we are of there being differentiation, over what is considered a 'good' achievement deserving of reward.

The violence might even occurred due to known triggers not been sufficiently acknowledged and sufficiently prevented.

Very true. But the victim needs to have his feelings acknowledged and to feel he has been treated fairly.

It is sometimes very hard to manage and encourage DCs with SENs in a standard sized class in a MS school. Sometimes the needs of the NT DCs have to come first. In specialist schools it's a lot easier.

Watery,

It is sometimes very hard to manage and encourage DCs with SENs in a standard sized class in a MS school. Sometimes the needs of the NT DCs have to come first. In specialist schools it's a lot easier.

This response deeply saddens me. How can people with additional needs ever hope to be accepted and fully integrate with wider society if as small children we begrudge their significantly greater challenges with a measly extra sticker or certificate? (Which is what the OP's post is about) regarding violence, this usually decreases when additional needs are properly acknowledged and catered for. Many violent behaviours can be quite simply avoided, just with reasonable adjustments. How can people with no additional needs ever hope to understand and empathise with those that have additional needs if they never come across them?

Yes, some reward schemes are implemented somewhat clumsily and insensitively but it is really, in the main, 'small fry' IMO when compared to the challenges and prejudices facing those with additional needs in our country today.

But surely you don't have to punish the perpetrator more than once so that the victim feels better? By all means give acknowledgement of their feelings and comfort but then the incident should have a line drawn under it and time to move on. What incentive is there to behave for the rest of the week if you have hit on a Monday morning thereby barring yourself from receiving a certificate on a Friday. A teacher using this sort of method is doing nobody any favours tbh neither the victim who doesn't need to see the hitter as some sort of irredeemable monster nor the hitter who loses the chance of a weekly reward on the strength of one incident.

...being rewarded with a measly..Typo omission.

Tbh some of this complaining IMO would seem to equate well with those complaints of people who apparently begrudge people their disabled parking spots, bus seats or mobility cars....

It is exactly the same Rock no wonder attitudes like these exist if as small children they aren't educated in school about diversity and disability in any meaningful way and even the adults who teach them and parent them display the same begrudging attitudes.
Thank God dd went to a Primary school that practised real inclusion and the children there were valued whatever the abilities or disabilities because those values were emulated by all the children as a result.

It would be nice if the girls who used my daughter as a punchbag had some empathy. Why does the child who has been hurt have to learn about empathy but not the bullies? When my daughter was told she had to feel sorry for these girls, this was after she was hit and rolled in nettles, I told the teacher that my daughter didn't have to feel sorry for them, she didn't need to know that they were unhappy she was a child in pain and telling her she should feel sorry for them was inappropriate in my opinion.

Any adults on here who would feel sorry for the people who hit them, made fun of them, stole their things and rolled them in nettles?

zzzz dd's primary was just the same it doubled in numbers in two years because of its reputation (it was newly built) They turned no child away, they took on all the permanently excluded children in the county and no child was ever excluded from there. The car park in a morning was similar to a SS as taxis and minibuses brought children in from miles away, there were wheelchairs and walkers and standing frames going backwards and forwards, the whole school signed every one of them knew they were valued it was so uplifting being a part of that school.

granny, of course the bullying of your daughter should have been swiftly and firmly dealt with. Nobody would deny that.

This thread is not about rewarding bad behaviour. However this does not mean it should not be recognised good behaviour can occur alongside bad. Both need to be acknowledged. Not, by victims of bully and violence, in the aftermath of being on the receiving end of abuse, but by the people who are responsible for the overall care and education of these children.

The OP did not say her child was at the receiving end of any bad behaviour. The thread was started at the perceived unfairness, observed by children, who are perceived by her DC to be behaving badly, receiving what her DC perceives as a reward.

Very different.

I don't think it is different to be honest. My daughter, who was very well behaved, had to watch these girls being rewarded after this behaviour. I'm sorry but I don't think behaving for a few days means they should be rewarded. I don't think it does them any favours. If the one who tried to drown my daughter hadn't been spotted and stopped (not by her teacher who decided not to intervene as she thought my daughter's screams for help were her larking about even though she knew the girl trying to drown her had bullied her for the previous 2 years) she would have been locked up and had a criminal record for the rest of her life. So was teaching her that she could assault other children and then behave reasonably for a couple of days really in her interests? I don't think so.

Encouraging kids is fine but if a child is hurt that week there should be no reward. End of. No adult would accept that so why should a child?

The school didn't address the issue in over 2 years and at the leaver's assembly she didn't get a mention for anything but saw these girls rewarded again. The funny thing was the children did awards of their own and the boys in her year, lovely kids every one, gave their award to her. I could have cried. Kids are wiser than adults sometimes.

Why do you feel it's "easier in SS"?

Class sizes, additional funding and more staff.

Why do you think it's ok to prioritise the average children over the children with Sen?

I said sometimes I did. Every child in my class was important. None was more important than any other.