School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

Rock
With more understanding and self control a child will realise the importance of good behaviour (for its own ends) and resist the short lived satisfaction a bit of extra attention can give or peer group approval can give.

The problem is that we could wait a long time for the point when the child "will" realise the importance of good behaviour for its own ends, because children are naturally inclined to be short-sighted with regard to ends, for developmental reasons

what they really need is to be enabled to gain more understanding and punishment does not necessarily enable this. Punishment, IMO, only really works as a deterrent when understanding or self control is not sufficient on its own.

I don't believe that, for the reasons I gave above, it is always possible for children "to be enabled to gain more understanding" until they are older. In the meantime, it is sometimes necessary to deter misbehaviour by use of negative consequences.

And zzzzzzz I haven't said any children are seething with jealousy? Again, people are misconstruing my posts. I have said.....If you read my posts.....That there is something fundamentally wrong with a system where non Sen kids who are naughty in the morning and good in the afternoon get rewards whereas non Sen kids who are good all day are not. Simples. I haven't said anything at all bad about kids with Sen or the reward system they might get, and I'm not being nasty to anyone by so called excluding them from my points.

Zzzzz who is want ING to deny any children access to their education? Who has said that?And who has said all children should be treated the same! Not me!

If a child needs a special reward system different from the other children, that child will have sen/ additional needs.

Spikeyball....I don't disagree with you there.

kesstrel I don't disagree with you, I was just explaining why I thought it is problematic to describe a child as being 'naughty'. I know, full well, many people would take more than a lifetime to learn these particular lessons!

So Mumzy you agree that "If a child needs a special reward system different from the other children, that child will have sen/ additional needs.If a child needs a special reward system different from the other children, that child will have sen/ additional needs."
In a class where time is short can you then understand where a teacher will use the reward system that is in place in such a way that it is weighted more favourably for the children who need extra encouragement, incentives etc?
So whilst you see that some children get more house points what you might not be seeing is that what you see as naughty with no SEN might very well be children with additional needs being given the extra rewards to encourage learning and acceptable behaviour.

zzzz

CanI just ask as well what's the big deal about house points or school rewards anyway? In primary you got naff stickers or dodgy printed, mass produced certificates I'm pretty sure no child can be so envious of another child who got a naff sticker or dodgy certificate that they go home and complain about it to their parents Have to say if any of mine commented they'd be getting the "get a grip and look at yourself" speech more than sympathy and promises to raise it with a teacher.

It isn't envy it's perceived unfairness. DCs see others misbehaving yet being rewarded despite that. As I said earlier my DC was enraged at the unfairness of another getting rewarded when days before he'd lashed out at his friend and hurt him for no reason whatsoever. That doesn't sit well with DCs who often have a very strong sense of what is fair.

I'm a teacher myself and I wouldn't have made that child star of the week that week.

I have a thought for all those of you with children who feel they are being treated unfairly.
Sit with them write down what they think would truly be fair. Question it. Discuss the pros and cons of their suggestions and when they and you come up with a better way of running a school I am sure the school will be delighted your child has been creative and productive in negotiating a solution.
Quit moaning do something or suck it up.

Very few children would think rewarding a child who was violent to another was fair.

They get that some struggle more with work, or to listen or to sit still. They are happy for their friends when they are rewarded for trying hard.

They need to know that the adults don't think it's ok to hit people, et alone be rewarded with something special a day or so later.

Watery, in some cases, yes, it might be perceived unfairness. However, without knowing the full situation it is difficult to comment on the hitting example you gave. Things that would effect whether the child in question was still given a reward could be whether the teacher knew he had hit another child, whether he purposely hit the other child or whether he had flailed his arms about and hit accidentally and how long a period of time the reward covers. The child who has been hit might not fully understand what had gone on themselves - which if this is the case should have been rectified.

Tbh this is part of the reason why I think there should be less emphasis on these type of very public rewards within schools. My DC's secondary has a system whereby positive (and negative) behaviour is noted on an Internet profile page which is personal to them. They and their parents can read it and any public rewards happen after a longer period of time, when they have had chance to build up more positive behaviour comments. Any negative behaviour patterns can be dealt with long before the time period is up, so they still have a chance of receiving an award but before then they still have the encouragement the comments provide.

I like Secondary a lot more...

And what about every day is a new day and all that? I imagine the child received a consequence for his actions on that day so why shouldn't he later that week receive the reward? I don't get all the fuss tbh I'd have told my child it wasn't any of his business as to who or why the child got the reward because nobody but the teacher has the full picture as to why she believed he was the child who deserved it that week.

Yes Rock we have a similar system,I don't know about negatives because dd has never received one although there is a code for negatives and the points are exchanged for prizes anything from pencils and hair bobbles to ipods and bikes. Students are sometimes told they got vivos, sometimes they are written in their book but often the only person who knows about them is the individual child.

Yes, insanity and similar could be done without an actual internet based scheme. All that it requires is a book or card with the awards noted on it. Any rewards can be then given less publicly.

It was an unprovoked thump. The injured child knew exactly what had happened. He wasn't a child who cried easily but he did that day because it hurt and because it was unprovoked. Then he saw his attacker get a reward a couple of days later. And be very smug about it waving it in his face on their way out of school.

He was an unpleasant child who grew up to be a violent and unpleasant adult.

If they have additional thatmake that impossible it does make it harder but not to the point of abandoning the behavioural policy to the detriment of the struggling child so miss-average doesn't feel "upset".

This is where we disagree. To me Miss-average's feelings are every bit as important as the other child's.

zzzz but you have grown adults (presumably) on here that don't get it so what hope have their children got? Ds and dd even with their own difficulties have a far better grasp on empathy and making adjustments than some on this thread show.......bizarre really.