School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

enter, I think the only way for interventions not to stand out is to have a classroom culture where it is common place for children to be doing different things to each other and for adults to use a large variety of rewards. In terms of rules, not to have class expectations with some exceptions, but to either have class expectations that are broad enough to encompass each child's abilities or if there is a large variation not to have class expectations at all. Each child should be assessed, in all areas, according to individual targets. So no class displays of smiley faces or sad faces for each child, or traffic lights, no children missing out on class rewards - because it is all too public.

And spikeyball lots of children don't get to take part in school plays, non Sen children included. IME it has been the Sen children who have had the main parts in our school plays, whilst often other quieter children are overlooked. I just think whilst teachers are keen to use rewards for Sen and challenging kids they shouldn't forget about the quieter less troublesome kids. It is so easy to do so.

Mumzy, I think 'excluding children' with SENs for the points you are making in your posts is part of the problem people are having with some of your posts. The thing is children with SENs are a significant proportion of children within mainstream education. They cannot and should not rightfully be excluded from a conversation such as this.

Because my DC was regarded as having some additional needs at one time, I can tell you it is extremely alienating, when all my experiences of having a child within the education system are effectively deemed 'irrelevant' because people are 'not talking about children with SENs'. People having additional so needs is an entirely normal part of life and experiences of this need to be acknowledged. It is always relevant!

And really Mumsy, how do you know what additional needs the children in your child's school have? So how can you say they get all the school play parts and rewards? This information is confidential. It often includes medical needs as well as educational ones.

My DC, incidentally, got few rewards and few school play parts in primary. Rewards linked to specific achievement often cause more anxiety than they are worth. My DC progressed hugely, without them, and no longer has a Statement or receives additional support.

Why do you seem so focussed on comparisons?

Rick...Sorry, but I totally disagree that children with Sen are the majority of mainstream education. I can exclude them from my point because I have no issue with Sen. I am not talking about children with Sen. At all. I have said many times that I have no issue with whatever reward scheme suits them. In fact I applaud it. What I am saying is that other non Sen children need rewards too, when their behaviour is good. How else can they be encouraged to be good.

Rick. I know they have Sen. They are the children who have a dedicated ta each. I'm not focussed on comparisons but you seem to be.

Rock....If I have made any comparisons it is between the children who have been good all day and the children who are bad in the morning and good in the afternoon. To be clear, I'm talking about neither of these groups having Sen. And if anyone else says but how do you know they don't have Sen,vi will scream.....

Mumzy, I did not say children with SEN are the majority but a significant proportion of children within mainstream school. Yes, you can choose to exclude them in your posts but schools cannot, legally, exclude them from their educational provision - and in this case it is very likely the reason behind differing treatment is the way the OP's school are making provisions for SENs.

Mumzypopz I haven't said that children without issues shouldn't get rewards but I don't get the handwringing about them not getting every 'good' bit the children with issues get.

Mumzy How do you know which child has a dedicated TA? Have you worked with the class? TAs are quite often assigned to work with small groups. Any of the children or all of the children could have additional needs. Not all additional needs require a dedicated TA. My DC had a dedicated TA, at one time, but she also worked with other children.

Rock...I've never said schools can exclude them?

they shouldn't forget about the quieter less troublesome kids. It is so easy to do so

Mumzy my child has been, quite often, that apparently quiet and less troublesome kid. SENs often manifest in the form of being very quietly anxious. It can seriously affect attainment but they aren't all noisily causing disruption to the others in class you know!

Spikeyball..I don't want them to get every good bit the children with issues get...Some would be nice. Just enough to make them feel good about themselves eh? Do you deny them that?

Rock. I know. Some of these children obviously have Sen and difficulties, it is not hard to see.

Rock...I've never said schools can exclude them?

No, but you are seemingly wanting to exclude children with SENs in this discussion, where provision for SENs is a very likely explanation for the OPs school's practices, in your posts.

Rock. Did I say they aren't all causing disruption.? You seem to be very keen to jump to conclusions and make me out to be the bad guy. I am not talking about kids with Sen.

Rock..I am excluding them from my discussion. Yes,a lot of people have said the children the op refers to as going to the party, may be Sen. I am in agreement with that, it may very well be the case. I added to the conversation that it is also often the case that non Sen kids who are naughty in the morning and good in the afternoon get rewards whereas non Sen kids who are good all day do not.

Mumzy, I am not trying to make you out to be the bad guy. I'm just observing some common misconceptions, such as the one I challenged, being implicit within your posts. You might not have meant them that way but interpreting them that way is very easily done, the way you have written them.

I also think it is inadvisable to exclude children with SENs from your discussion when the issues you are talking about are the ones most pertinent to children with SENs education experience within ma stream schools. When you keep stressing that you are excluding children with SENs from your conversations it is seems deliberately othering, especially when the majority of other posters are including them.

The other thing you don't seem to be grasping that a significant number of children in any class will have SEN and will have no TA support attached to them. They may well be high achieving academically as well so you can not be so self assured that the children of whom you refer do not have SEN.

those kids who are naughty in the morning and good in the afternoon.

And the teacher confirmed the existence of these kids to you? Kids without SEN who do not have persistent behaviour problems but who are naughty in the morning and good in the afternoon and who get rewarded for it?

I know they have Sen. They are the children who have a dedicated ta each

So, you might know the kids with TAs have SEN but you don''t know that the other kids don't. Because only in fairyland do all kids with SEN get a dedicated TA each. And they don't all have difficulties that would be obvious to you or other parents either.

Klein. Is it really difficult for you to think that actually a lot of children don't have Sen. Of course all kids with Sen don't get a dedicated ta each. I have never said that. A poster asked me how I knew those particular kids have sen. I answered her that sadly, it is obvious. I wish it wasnt.
I am not the devil you want me to be so please stop misconstruing my posts. And of course they don't all have difficulties that are obvious. It would be silly to think so. But despite you not wanting to grasp this .... THERE ARE A LOT OF CHILDREN OUT THERE WHO DO NOT HAVE SEN.please do not exclude them.

Zzzzz good for them but sadly I have a valid point.

Insanity.. a significant no. of children in any class won't have Sen too?