School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

The discussion has widened since the OP, and bullying is relevant when bullies' victims see the bullies getting rewarded. The school may be trying to modify the bullying behaviour through the use of incentives, but it is not easy for the bullies' victim to accept this. Emotionally it may well feel like the bullies are being rewarded for the bullying, even though it is not what is happening.

Even now, at 52 years old, there is still a part of me that would like to see my bullies suffer. At 10, 11, 12 etc, I just wanted them to be punished. And I will not condemn younger me for that. She deserved better.

Lastnight it is none of your or your children's business as to what SN the children in the school or indeed the same class as your own children have.You can talk generally about children finding some things easier or more difficult to explain any differences.
As a parent who pressed a complaint against a school TA who mentioned dd by name on a training course (no mention as to her needs or disability) and ensured she was disciplined by the school (she was lucky to keep her job) I can assure you that no teacher who values their role is going to risk breaching confidentiality to pacify the nosey bystanders. As it stands now the TAs who support her can only discuss her needs with the teachers directly teaching her, the SENCo and the HT without my prior agreement.

Most of the discussion has been about 'naughty' behaviour. Bullying is something different. I think it would clearer if people didn't use naughty to describe bullying.

Last I'll answer that later, i have to go out now.

1nsanity, it is that kind of attitude that makes it very difficult to deal with the situation. Maybe I am not just a nosey bystander, maybe I really do want to understand and try to help, but I can't because I'm in the dark. It causes misunderstandings and breeds resentment. Blanket restrictions are too broad. There need to be better explanations given. Current system isn't working.

Exactly Spikeyball bullying is entirely different. IME the bullies aren't usually the children with SN and statistics show that for children with ASD they are far more likely to be a victim than a perpetrator.

It is precisely because I want my child to understand the difference between "naughty" and "finds things difficult sue to SEN" that I am stumped. Right now people don't know which is which and I don't know enough about SEN to know what behaviour can be attributed to SEN and what is just naughtiness.

Zzzz - of course not, because that isn't anything to do with SEN. Also, my child isn't affected in your scenario. But posters here have described physical violence, that is what I am referring to.

LastnightYou don't need to have knowledge of the difficulties though,there is no reason for you to know.You educate your child on children having different needs and different strengths and abilities and teach them empathy. You can do all that and I have myself without there being any knowledge of children's individual needs.
If you knew for instance my dd has ASD how would that help? She has her own presentation quite unlike my ds who has ASD so knowing their diagnosis tells you nothing. Why should you know their personal medical information? Why should you know that Billy was adopted at four after being neglected by his birth family or Susie was abused by her Grandfather and is angry and traumatised? It's none of your business,it's personal information that isn't there to be shared purely for parents in the playground to fool themselves that knowing the ins and outs will make them more tolerant and understanding.

Well, to give an example, it would be nice to understand why the boy who comes up to children in the playground and hitting them in their faces, unprovoked, is doing it. I would like the teacher or other specialist to explain if it is down to SN because then I would understand why the "normal" punishments are not used (they don't seem to be) and be reassured that alternative approaches to behaviour management are in place. I feel this would ease my worries about the safety of my child. As it stands, nothing is said, parents do gossip (NB I do not but I have heard it in the playground) and the child is regarded with suspicion. I feel if it was handled more openly and explained to the parents whose children have been hit then it would be easier for them to handle. As it stands I find it difficult to know what to say to my son.

As I have repeatedly said, I do not feel it is my unqualified right to know, but if my child is AFFECTED by the behaviour then I do feel that it is my right, yes. Rights are not absolute. Furthermore, I am making a distinction as regards SN because to the extent that they are neurological differences which cause unusual behaviour which means that the child does not respond to the usual sanctions then I can understand why the usual sanctions are not being used.

In that instance you should raise it with the school so that the child could be supported during times when he might lash out. For my child I would say "X hasn't learned yet that hitting isn't nice so we need to be careful not to make him scared or angry in the playground until he has learned what you already know" I'd then be prepared to be quite near my children and be ready to distract X if the need arises "Oh X are they new shoes? That's a lovely hat,is it warm? Have you seen Mrs B's photo on the notice board?" are all distractions I've used successfully myself in the past.

If a child is randomly hitting other children then it is likely there are additional needs- but I think that would be fairly obvious it is likely their are additional needs.

I'm open about my children's needs I don't believe that Autism is anything to be ashamed of. However I have had my parenting criticised, been told that I just want a label, been told that these conditions don't really exist, some of those by people I would once have called friends. My children's needs aren't the issue it's societies view of those needs that is the issue.

I had a little smile at the phrase "if mainstreaming is to work..." there isn't an alternative, special school places are few and reserved for those with very high needs. In short as I told a particularly awful TA one day, we don't institutionalise any more. My son is bright, Autistic, bouncing off every available surface sure but it's been shown that he can do the work, he just needs extra help.

I don't want my son to be disruptive, difficult or "naughty". It is utterly soul destroying to arrive for pick up and need another little chat with the teacher. Watching other children enjoying play dates and clubs and sports that would be impossible for DS to even access is awful. Then it starts to work, all that hard work and endless patience and tweaking until you find the right thing and some parent moans because their child doesn't get a sticker for finishing their maths questions and yours does.

And as for saying, "he won't get that in the workplace". Ido just like to get to Easter in one piece thanks. Plus you'd be surprised how many accommodations are made for people with disabilities in the workplace, it's called inclusion, equality and some businesses absolutely nail it. Adults with high functioning Autism will say that school was their worst time, the lights, the noise, the chaotic artwork hanging everywhere, the shouting, going off timetable all the time...then you have to learn.

I'd just like, just for a bit not to feel as though everyone thinks I didn't flick the right switch or say the right thing or discipline him in the right way to make him normal. Because if there was a switch to make everything okay I'd be the first to hit it.

But Lastnight it doesn't matter what the reasons are that the child behaves differently and the school uses different strategies,extra incentives and rewards.You can assume that if the adjustments happen then they are in place for a reason because adjustments mean extra planning and resources so they aren't put in place willy nilly. They have been deemed necessary either by the teacher, the SENCo or an outside agency so whether or not you approve either of the reason behind the need or the adjustments made isn't important tbh and won't be discussed with you.

Colours I think all of us would probably flick the same switch tbh. I'm quite the opposite to you, I don't discuss ds and dd's diagnoses with anybody.They are teens now and I believe it is their information to share and not mine.Mind you it's twenty years since ds was diagnosed and I've got a skin thicker than a rhino's so I offer no explanation no matter how much I'm probed.

My ds totally understood at the age of 5 or 6 that there were children who couldn't control themselves and needed 'extra help' . He had a lot of empathy. However 5 years down the line his empathy is wearing a bit thin when he has constantly been overlooked for lots and lots of things and the children who are still being naughty are still getting to do all those fun things.

And one of those children beats the crap out of him on a regular basis. And still gets rewarded! And no, this child doesn't have Sen or a crap homelife and even if he did it should not be used as an excuse to beat someone up.

teens and older it should say

I don't think SEN or not children should be hitting other kids in the face every break, if they have SEN and this is a part of it school should be supervising.

No one however has the right to know anyone else's medical history to me it's pretty obvious even children would know if another child has difficulties, depending on severity but don't need to be told.

But porpoise that is down to the school, ultimately it is the school that is letting your child down and probably the other children with difficulties too. Have you raised how your child is feeling with the school? If you've raised it and it keeps happening and have exhausted all channels (teacher,HT,governing body) then you need to opt with your feet tbh.

I stand by my views. Child in question does not have a TA or any support in the playground. My son actually is one of the few that tries to play with him, because I have explained to my son in a simple way what you suggested, but as he is getting older and the incidents more frequent he is asking more questions about exactly how he is different and why he behaves the way he does. Most kids avoid him, probably because the mothers describe the kid as "weird/naughty/bad" etc - wouldn't a bit more education for them be helpful? The way things are going he will become even more isolated.

I understand that mainstreaming is the policy now and I agree that institutionalising isn't the answer, but it needs to be properly funded. As such I think there is an element of divide and rule here. Ultimately parents of all children want the same thing, harmony and support for all children, and it is the policy/funding that is the issue.

Actually I think little accommodation is made for people with disabilities in the workplace. And I speak as a disabled person.