To feed the vegan child cheese

[cheesyinkent]

NC for this to not out myself. DS 8 has a friend coming round for tea next week. The mother has stressed very heavily that he is vegan, can't touch any dairy or meat as it will make him very unwell. However ds says his favourite food is normal cheese and cheesy pizza. Apparently he has it all the time when away from his DM.

Who do I follow? I've looked in asda and could only find one vegan cheese, it didn't look like the pizza kind - more a spreadable cream cheese thing.

The oysters are a bit of a red herring! My vegan children would not eat an oyster.

I agree with the importane of being accurate. We all know the special word "pescetarianism" surely? My niece is one.

The bottom line is the UK has never had such unhealthy and large people in our history with 60% my age over weight and most stuffing their faces with junk (which indeed vegans can do too of course). I think we divide into those who eat in a healthy way which you can as a vegan or any other kind of eating - my paleo too and all other mixtures or you can eat in an unhealthy way whether you are a vegan or not.

Spartacus nowhere have I stated that oysters are plants!

I haven't given an opinion on whether I think it's Ok for vegans to eat oysters or not.

All I said was it's an interesting debate and linked to an article which contributes to that debate.

Those my darling are 'my facts'.

If they are not plants they are.....?

Bivalves.

here's an alternative view, to show I'm not biased.

www.peta.org/living/other/reasons-never-eat-oysters-clams-scallops-mussels/

And bivalves are.....?

I'm not saying you're biased, I'm just saying it can't be an interesting debate when there is no debate to be had, as its a matter or unequivocal classification.

Some vegans think it's OK to eat oysters as part of a vegan diet some don't. I think really it's up to the vegans to sort this out among themselves. As I'm not a vegan, and I assume from your posts that you aren't either Spartacus, then let's leave them to it shall we?

It's simple really, animal, vegetable or mineral?

If it fits into the animal category then you can't eat it if you are vegetarian. If you can't eat it as a vegetarian then you certainly can't eat it as a vegan.

Still, it was suggested upthread that Fish and Chips makes a suitable vegan meal..............

The vegan society says:

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

"From 'junk food vegans' to raw food vegans, and everything in between, there's a version of veganism to suit everyone. Yet one thing we all have in common is a plant-based diet avoiding all animal foods such as meat (including fish, shellfish and insects), dairy, eggs and honey - as well as products like leather and any tested on animals."

I think we can agree that oysters are shellfish and therefore should not be included as part of a vegan diet according to this definition.

Some vegans think it's OK to eat oysters as part of a vegan diet some don't. I think really it's up to the vegans to sort this out among themselves. As I'm not a vegan, and I assume from your posts that you aren't either Spartacus, then let's leave them to it shall we?

No, I don't think so. As I said, I care nothing for vegan choices or beliefs, more power to them, I say. I'm talking about use of language, which is my business as much as theirs.

Oysters are in the animal category. Therefore they are not foods that vegans or vegetarians can eat (and still call themselves vegans or vegetarians).

People can eat what they want, believe what they want, do what they want...their own business. The language belongs to us all though and they can't take words and change their meanings to suit. That's not on.

Because I know the mother and I know from my ds he has eaten his and others dairy foods.

DS is more expert friend's diet/allergies than the mother? If the friend told their mother "little cheesy wants coconut pudding and eats it all the time " would you be happy to deal with the consequences?

Children like to fit in with their peers. At least one of mine use to agree he ate bacon - he was bored witless being challenged by parents who assumed their own junk filled diets were superior.

As adults they are all healthy and borderline vegan (we are not vegan but by daily habit we tend to eat that way).

They describe trying the ham/nuggets pushed at them by friends' parents - they were polite kids. I never made a fuss if they picked up the wrong sandwich but they didn't have allergy problems.

I don't like to judge, but some vegan parents just do say it makes them unwell without ever knowing as they've never knowingly given them dairy.

And yet you make a unsubstantiated judgement about vegan parents. Isn't it easier just to ask the child's mother about their favourite foods?

I'm mystified that some posters would unhesitatingly support a child's dietary restrictions based on religious ethics but happily think they can overrule other ethical frameworks for children of this age.

I know a 9 year old vegetarian child who will eat meat as soon as mum turns. I tell him which bits have meat when he visits, but I don't police his choices.

People can eat what they want, believe what they want, do what they want...their own business. The language belongs to us all though and they can't take words and change their meanings to suit.

I agree, it also make life so much harder. You get people asking do you eat fish and when you say no they reply that some vegetarians do. They get all pissy when you point out that they are not vegetarians.

And I agree when people say they would respect a religious reason but not an ethical one. Just because I don't make my choice because I have been told to in a book or by a religious leader then it is less valid somehow. I only have myself to look to, I'm not worried about some deity watching me.

I know a 9 year old vegetarian child who will eat meat as soon as mum turns. I tell him which bits have meat when he visits, but I don't police his choices.

what about a child who was raised in a meat eating household only eating vegi food at a party? No one would give a shit or claim that the child was being put on a restrictive diet eating meat every day.

what about a child who was raised in a meat eating household only eating vegi food at a party? No one would give a shit or claim that the child was being put on a restrictive diet eating meat every day

Unless that child ate only meat, its not analogous.

I also know a child who isn't supposed to eat pork for religious reasons who eats pork at bbqs, parties and camps. Same sort of thing, I tell him which ones are pork, but I don't stop him. Thing is, if by the age of 9 or 10 the child isn't convinced of their parents choice of diet, it will become unenforceable.

The mother has stressed very heavily that he is vegan, can't touch any dairy or meat as it will make him very unwell

Did you miss the bit about it making him very unwell? Just feed the kid vegan food. I know a few kids on vegan diets due to allergies.

Amy's Kitchen is a free from brand that have a few vegan friendly things. They do a rice mac and cheese that is gluten free, dairy free and vegan friendly and tastes absolutely amazing.

Thing is, if by the age of 9 or 10 the child isn't convinced of their parents choice of diet, it will become unenforceable.

Most kids experiment at some point as they get older. Visitors to our house were always asking to try veggie options not available at home, I took it for granted that mine would try the opposite at some point. I never worried unduly about that.

By 10, if you have offered them the options its not your job to police their eating when they visit unless there is an allergy type problem. As pp said, children are not always good at resisting foods which make them ill. (of course nor are some adults but adults can take responsibility for themselves).

Also kids with allergies can be really stupid and have been known to eat things they shouldn't. I was with a teen who got blue lighted in an ambulance a few years back. He had stomach pains so severe that two first aiders and a paramedic thought he had appendicitis. It later came to light that he was severely lactose intolerant and had eaten 2 portions of a cream heavy dessert because "he thought it would be fine"

If the mum stresses vegan diet just feed him vegan food. It won't kill you all to eat vegan for one meal. Even if it's for ethical reasons it's still the right thing to do and if it's for allergy reasons you could make an 8 year old very very ill. First rule of Wheaton applies here. Don't be a dick.

@ImFuckingSpartacus in the uk there is currently no legal definition of vegetarian or vegan. I hope there will be some day soon to limit the misuse of terminology that only confuses the issue.

Hanna I wish! Every country and every region seems to interpret it differently. I've been offered chicken, fish and dishes with 'only small amounts of meat' as well as meat stock based soups, gelatine based deserts etc all as the sole vegetarian option.

It would help if people wanting veggie option by preference over the meat dishes simply expressed that preference rather than describing themselves as veggies and then eating some meat and fish - confuses the hell of of people who are simply trying to be helpful.

in the uk there is currently no legal definition of vegetarian or vegan

We don't need a legal definition, we already have a clear linguistic one. As long as we keep telling people who wilfully misuse to fecking stop it, we're all good!

Haha! I love this! Unfortunately I can't get round everyone!

So OP what are you serving and what's the pud?

C8H10N402

Me too! I have a family member that calls herself vegetarian but eats fish, so other family members assume I do too despite being vegan. It blurs the lines!