To feed the vegan child cheese

[cheesyinkent]

NC for this to not out myself. DS 8 has a friend coming round for tea next week. The mother has stressed very heavily that he is vegan, can't touch any dairy or meat as it will make him very unwell. However ds says his favourite food is normal cheese and cheesy pizza. Apparently he has it all the time when away from his DM.

Who do I follow? I've looked in asda and could only find one vegan cheese, it didn't look like the pizza kind - more a spreadable cream cheese thing.

SuburbanRhonda
the new wave of vegans who think oysters are vegan because scientists haven't yet discovered whether or not they feel pain.

You are joking, right? Veganism is not based on whether or not a being feels pain! Eating honey doesn't cause bees pain but you won't catch vegans eating it!

Yes food is important. But we have a choice whether we harm animals or not. It's quite possible to have lovely food, be happy, and not harm animals. Why is enjoying the taste of bacon more important than the life of that living pig, when you could just eat something else?

veganism only has positive benefits for the environment and the animals in it

It depends where you live and what you eat. We live in a poor region of a developing country. We can't be vegan, veganism is a first world luxury. We have no vegan processed foods and fruit is seasonal. Most vegan recipes involve things like avacados and nuts. I've checked our cashew and avacado trees, they fruit for two months a year, a lot gets eaten by the wildlife because we don't shoot or poison them. First world people can have stuff flown in from all over, available all year and in abundance, often on big plantations with less regulations for the benefit of the local wildlife. That's scary and far from "good for the environment".

ImFuckingSpartacus...just because SuburbanRhonda has stated this nonsense does not make it one bit true.

HereWeGoRound
It's about not harming sentient creatures. Oysters have no brains or nervous systems, they don't feel pain and cannot suffer, not the same.

I'd never heard the thing about vegans & oysters. So I googled it, really interesting debate.

sentientist.org/2013/05/20/the-ethical-case-for-eating-oysters-and-mussels/

The last time I ate an oyster I was ill for 48 hours with norovirus though, so I won't be doing it again.

SaudadeObama I agree, veganism isn't an option for many people around the world. But it is for most of those in the developed West. But there are many vegan foods that don't include nuts or avocados - potatoes, rice, pasta, all the veggies, beans and lentils - all healthy great options for people in most places.

VelvetSpoon until I was in my teens I used to pick walnuts off the tops of Walnut Whips because I couldn't resist eating them, despite my severe allergy to walnuts (and other tree nuts)...because my sisters ate them and I wanted to eat them too. I was much older than 8. I also used to eat oranges (and still do occasionally) and suffer flare-ups of eczema...but I LOVE the taste of fresh orange. I wouldn't take the same risks with my young children however! I can't help what they get up to outside of my home and in the care of others, apart from polite requests to parents to not feed my children any of their allergens. Unfortunately there are too many people who think like the OP, so I don't let my youngest (who is severely allergic) out of my sight around food.

OP you want Violife cheese, it's made from Coconut oil and the mozzarella version melts and is tasty.
You can get it in Sainsbos, tescos, waitrose and in health food shops. It's nice.

PaperdollCartoon

From the Vegan Society's website:
"A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

Exploitation of animals, whether sentient or not!

At 8 I think you have to respect the mother's wishes, even if you believe her to be bullshitting about dairy making him ill. I also don't know that I'd necessarily assume it's the kids who are telling the truth on that one either.

If he were secondary age then I'd agree with you that if she hasn't managed to sufficiently imbue her child with her beliefs about diet, it's not your responsibility to try and make him comply with them. That would also be true for eg halal or kosher food, no meat on Good Friday etc. And by that age you'd hopefully know he could be trusted to be more truthful about his allergies and intolerances than a younger child. But for an 8 year old, I'd say you need to play safe.

There have been numerous studies done on the environmental impact of a meat-based diet versus a vegan diet, and they all show that even taking into account seasonality, the need to import some vegan foodstuffs, etc a vegan diet is much lower impact.

Many vegans are also mindful of the ethics of what they eat (goes with the territory) - so for example will choose locally grown, seasonal, organic produce when it's available; avoid palm oil; only choose ethically produced soya, etc.

But I agree it is easier to be vegan in the first world where most things are available most of the time.

Follow the parent's wishes. You have no idea about the details.

My friend's mum gave me celery once, having been warned about my allergy (I was 9). She took the view that 'no-one's allergic to celery'. I was a polite child, so ate it. Took her ages to clear up the vomit.

OP is a saint for still trying to produce some kind of (fake) cheese pizza for the kid.

beached, that's really interesting about your elder son. I'm guessing children like that are more likely to grow from vegan children into vegan adults. Because he's been presented with a choice he's chosen to make veganism a part of his identity. So when he chooses to continue doing it he's asserting his own identity and even though it may inconvenience him or be hard sometimes he will feel good about it because he's making his own choices and doing the things he's happy with. I guess it's a lot easier to turn down a slice of pizza if you're doing it because you want to rather than because your Mum will go mad. I don't doubt you're right about your own 8 year old either. But I'm guessing in this case if the 8 year old is old enough to decide there's no reason he shouldn't eat cheese he's probably old enough to hear and understand the reasons why his mother thinks he shouldn't too.

Always find it astounding how many people think parents shouldn't pass on their ethics to their children

But children don't have to accept them, and thank goodness they don't. Otherwise we would still think women were chattel and that most people were rightfully serfs and slaves by accident of birth and Germany would still contain shitloads of Nazis and we'd all be doing what the Catholic Church said and pumping out babies without contraception in miserable marriages without prospect of divorce.

Children don't always accept their parents ethics blindly. If they rebel you can either respect that decision or fight against it and attempt to force it on them. I would guess overwhelmingly the result is the same -rejection of those ethics.

ImFuckingSpartacus...just because SuburbanRhonda has stated this nonsense does not make it one bit true.

Of course it's not true. But try googling "are oysters..." and the first hit that comes up is "are oysters vegan".

And I know first hand from my supposedly vegan cousin and his wife that some peopls are buying into this idea.

Why is she a saint for trying to accommodate a child with an allergy? Given the child gets ill after eating dairy it's not unlikely. Presumably you wouldn't say that if the chid had a peanut allergy.

*child

Herewego, there are things in her videos like iodine which is a by product of milking being described as bloody teats. And things being taken out of context like cows being winched to get them to safety after flooding being presented as normal cruel treatment of cows. I don't doubt that there are problems with the industry. But generally the more hysterical end of YouTube is not the greatest source.

Away no half the people posting on here would probably feel "bad" for the child with the peanut allergy and give them a snickers.

pixies, the Mum hasn't said he has an allergy. Getting a bit of a tummy upset after eating something you're not used to is not an allergy. Otherwise half the country would be allergic to Vindaloo.

I don't get why the hate towards vegans. So what if some vegans eat oysters or drink wine or wear leather shoes, they aren't vegan enough for you?

People chose their own routes, based on the information they have. I don't drink alcohol either, and decided to identify to others at university as a "pioneer" rather than to keep reiterating that it was a choice I had made. Maybe these vegans are sick of explaining their objection to the slaughter and captivity of animals but saying I'm vegan is easier or I'm allergic.

I don't see why people can't respect legitimate choice. The mother has asked that you don't do something for one day, she hasn't called you an animal killing fiend or demanded you stop eating what you want to eat.

Why so little respect?

Of course it isn't true that oysters are vegan, but it is very true that some people claim they are or might be.

If you put "are oysters..." into google, the second option is "are oysters vegan". And then you get pages like Why some Vegans are OK with eating oysters

DiL and DGD are both intolerant to eggs, dairy and gluten. I wouldn't dream of giving them anything with gluten in because it gives DGD the screaming shits (but, oddly, makes DiL constipated). Dairy makes DiL vomit and gives her stomach-ache, but only gives DGD a rash and a runny nose.

DGD (21 months) is on some hospital-run food introduction programme, where they gradually try tiny amounts of different stuff to try and develop a tolerance.

Cooking for them is a complete pain in the arse, as we are dairy-loving carnivores and love a good pie. We invariably end up doing a roast and loads of veg so that people have plenty of choice and can leave the bits that make them ill. And we only cook for them once a month or so! I find the gluten thing more awkward than avoiding dairy - no flour-thickened sauces or gravies, pasta or anything with breadcrumbs. Thankfully, they can all eat fish.

We go to them every 2-3 weeks and have experienced the horrors of dairy-free spread (Pure and Vitalite have the texture of Brylcreme and taste little better imo) and vegan "cheese". The vegan cheeses I have tried have been so repulsive that I'd rather eat my flip-flops and one, that was made from nuts, led DP to remark that he'd rather eat knob cheese than nut cheese.

I really don't see the point of all these substitutes tbh. I'd rather go without than bother with expensive "alternatives" that bear no resemblance to the real thing.

Genuine question:

Would the PPs who have said it's fine to feed the child dairy not mind if another parent overrode their wishes and fed their child something they believed was unethical and could harm them, because they thought they knew better? A glass of vodka or cigarettes for example?

LuxCoDespondant and others whose posts I can't find.