To tell DH that this is too much?

[Alaia5]

I've posted about DH and his behaviour/ hobbies some months back, so apologies about another question.

DH has recently turned 45 and wants to go on an expedition to the North Pole. The expedition would take 80 days, plus another 2 weeks training prior to the expedition itself.

We have 4 DC aged 14, 12, 9 and 6, so not babies anymore. I also have MIL living nearby and she is a LOT to deal with on a day-to-day basis. In the 15 years we've been married I I've never held DH back from doing anything. He's away regularly due to work anyway, so I'm more than used to coping on my own for anything between one night to a week.

80 days though is practically 3 months and I'm surprised that I feel slightly panicked and tearful at the thought of him being away for that long. I'm not even sure if there will be wi-fi? On the other hand, it's for a great cause and I can see it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. I'm obviously worried about the impact of him being away on the DC as well, particularly our younger two.

AIBU to say this is too much or AIBU to let him go and have my DC be without their dad for 3 months? I know there are millions of single parents or people with partners in the forces which makes me think maybe I'm being a bit precious about the whole thing? DH is coming back from NY tomorrow night and wants to discuss it, but I genuinely don't know what to think. AIBU?

I feel like I'm whistling in the wind here, but you seem like such an intelligent and nice person, it's hard not to keep posting.

I'm so glad you are doing your training. Are you enjoying it? Is it giving you some fulfillment? It's really important that you keep on doing it and look at getting some employment at the end- and you know what, even if it isn't strictly school hours, you can work round it, afterschool clubs exist, so do childminders, or the older DCs can take the younger ones home.

Let's see how your conversation with your DH goes.

If he does end up going away for the 3 months I'd use that as an opportunity to back away from your MIL's unhealthy dependency on your family. The fact she doesn't call at night when DH isn't there suggests it isn't dementia or genuine concern, just 100% manipulation, so if he's not there for a long period of time, then you're very busy of course with your training and the DCs. Let her come and cook if she wants to, just be too busy with homework and ferrying DCs to be her fawning audience. At least you'll get food you don't have to make. You can push the boundaries by cutting down on visits - text her to tell her you're too tired to come, if she wants to see you she'll come round. She won't be able to complain to your DH about this as he won't be contactable .

She will call when we're watching a movie or in the bath and DH goes down there straight away because he's worried about her panic attacks.

OP is it possible that your DH didn't have much of a childhood with his controlling mother and in you he has found the mother he never had? Is he having a childhood now becasue he didn't have one when he was young? Is he escaping her for three months not your family? May be some family counselling would help everyone.

Thankyou Rookie for all your very thoughtful posts and sorry if I'm frustrating! It's easy for me to say things on here, but RL is different so I don't want to sound all outraged unless I'm actually am going to do something drastic, if that makes sense. Otherwise it's empty words.

Naked - PIL was controlling and DH was away at school from an early age. MIL couldn't or wouldn't parent him properly IMO. She has always been quite neurotic, I suspect.

I'd say no on the grounds that going to one of the last great unspoiled wildernesses on earth as a jolly is a really twatty thing to do.

I had just posted yesterday because I was not feeling "cool" about this expedition at all, but then I was weighing that up against the fact that millions of mums are on their own full time with exs who give them nothing.

The whole point of there being two parents is that it should be easier and more supportive than if you are a lone parent. You shouldn't settle for living as a lone parent when you aren't one just because some people are in that situation. By this logic I could cut up my husband's shirts and put curry powder in his coffee because some wives do.

Or there are forces families, etc who live like this for years.

Members of the Armed Forces have no choice but to work away for long periods of time and they are doing a duty. Your idiot selfish husband isn't protecting Queen and country, he's hoping to enjoy a prolonged jolly with you picking up all his responsibilities for him.

I echo the PP who said that he’s the star of his life while you and your kids have cameos. He does not see any of you as complete individuals in your own rights. You are all accessories to his starring role. You are defined by him and exist simply to make him look good (dutiful wife, lovely children) or pick up his shit for him while he fucks off for months on end as if he doesn’t have a family.

It is absolutely horrible to treat people as if they have no will or desires or narratives of their own, and it’s downright heartbreaking when a person has been treated this way for so long that they start to internalise it and make it true. I hope to God that this is not happening here. The fact you’ve started this thread is very encouraging, but what will you do when he starts to whinge or lose his temper because he might have to start stepping up to the crap bits of his responsibilities as well as the glamorous ones?

I think the problem is MIL.

You'd probably be ok with it if she wasn't such a pain in the hole.

No solution sorry just wanted to wish you well.

The problem isn't Mil, its her selfish husband.
He comes first.
Next is Mil
Then kids
Then OP

Why are you at the bottom of his list ?
Because he doesn't give a toss about you.

No, the problem isn't MIL. She could disappear in a puff of polar ice and husband would still remain seeing his family as lesser satellites caught in his great orbit, to be dumped as the whim takes him.

As for Mothers Day - I expect my DD's to stay with their families on Sunday, and get treats from their DC/DH. I certainly won't be stomping my foot and complaining about food. Does your mum behave like her ? She's not even old.

I wish you would stop drawing comparisons with forces families. It is NOT the same as disappearing on a holiday. My dad was on detachment for long periods when I was a child - I missed him each and every time as did my sisters! And when he was home, he was a brilliant hands on Dad as he hated missing out on our childhood too.

Your husband is CHOOSING to be away from his children to fulfill his own selfish needs. And then he has the audacity to not want 'your' career to impact on family life - FUCK THAT! Maybe he should give a shit about stepping up to fill the gaps then not choose to opt out even further for 1/4-1/3 of the year

Yorick - it's possible that I have internalised certain things and I can accept that. It's not a detached-type of relationship I have with DH. I don't always know what's me or what's him and I think most couples are probably like this. I don't think people who know me would say I appear downtrodden though. You could say I swan about while he's always working. I'm sure a lot of people would think that actually.
He doesn't think I'm bottom of the list. He will make a massive fuss on Mother's Day which I know is only one day, but at least he bothers. He does have quite traditional views but I don't think he sees himself as more important than me, just that it's we have had different roles in relation to the fsmily. He thinks a lot of what he does is nonsense.

But yes this trip is a choice . I totally see the hypocrisy and please don't think I don't.

You have said he is loving and generous. I don't doubt it. I am sure he is very nice to you on a person to person basis.

Why wouldn't he, you are convenient and accommodating to his wishes (and of course I'm sure you are a beautiful and wonderful person to be with )

But when he thought your return to work would impact family (meaning he might be expected to step up a little) he didn't like that did he. It has only been resolved with your reassurance to him it won't affect your duties at home. If it did, he would have pressured you to not do it. And I'd bet you would have conceded.

That's why YANBU. If you told him you were going away for one month (the amount of time you are actually okay with) what would he say? What if you told him you would have several absences from home a year but not to worry because when you come home you will be lovely to everyone? How would he react?

If you and he had equal respect for each other, going away for three months might be workable. In your relationship, it only works with sacrifice from you and that's not ok.

I hope a happy outcome can be found

I've had a look on the expedition website now - I've never read so much self important guff in all my life

This is totally not about him having a once in a lifetime chance to do imprtant work - it's got pandering to your ego written all over it! Most important expedition of our generation, my eye. For the people who have gone on it so they can talk endlessly about it to others who just won't understand how fabulous they are, maybe.

So, he wants to sod off for 80 days on the polar ice caps but thinks you, a qualified psychologist, can't work in a YOI in a role you are perfectly qualified to do as it wouldn't be safe

OP, why are you constantly belittling your contribution and overplaying his? It's not "swanning around" to be a SAHM when you have four kids, an insane mother in law and a husband who is away for long stretches and thinks all the shitwork of life is yours. And it's not some huge enormous effort to get a few odd and sods for Mothers' Day. The shops are full of crap and as you say, it's one day. It's the relentless grind the whole year round that's the challenge, and what does he do for that?

It's not a detached-type of relationship I have with DH. I don't always know what's me or what's him and I think most couples are probably like this.

No! No they're not! Healthy people have a full sense of self and know their own dreams and wishes! This is terrifying! This is not normal! You're married to the bloody Borg!

I don't think he sees himself as more important than me, just that it's we have had different roles in relation to the fsmily.

Yes - yours is to pick up and run around and cook and clean and his is to express himself and be stellar and fuck off on extended jollies because it's all about satisfying himself.

He thinks a lot of what he does is nonsense.

Please, OP, I beg you, because you are clearly such an intelligent and compassionate person that this is really starting to upset me. Please, please, please stop focusing on what he thinks, what he feels, what he says, and all the other things about what HE WANTS and HE THINKS that don't matter one jot against what he ACTUALLY DOES. And what he ACTUALLY DOES is prioritise his sense of fulfilment over yours, over his family, to the point where the silly man doesn't even know his own kids' school routines. It doesn't matter what he says and what he feels and what he thinks, it matters what he DOES. And with his bloody rugby mates and his entitlement and his polar expeditions, what he DOES is treat you like an accessory who is defined entirely by his shining star of a self.

When your kids are grown and flown, he will have amazing memories and well travelled feet and no doubt many ideas for the next billion things he's entitled to. What will you have?

I'm starting to hope the space shuttle thing comes about, because with any luck the silly sod will be sent into orbit.

yorick

Quit sitting on the fence. How do you really feel??

Oh, the expedition gets worse. From Jim McNeill's wikipedia page - man organizing this expedition.

Jim McNeill has attempted to reach the Northern Pole of Inaccessibility on two occasions. In 2003, he contracted a flesh-eating disease (Necrotising Fasciitis) in his left ankle and was unable to leave base camp in Resolute Bay, Canada. His second attempt in 2006 was thwarted by disintegrating sea ice, some 130 miles into the journey on Day 17.

Actually make that 3 times as the reference comes from an interview in 2010, so he clearly didn't make it that time either

He can't even make a cup of tea as he doesn't know where to find the cups if I remember correctly.

As Yorick says it is really sad to read how little you value your contribution.

OP, I don't think you can change him. He might reduce his time away and cut down on his hobbies a bit, but that's probably it. It sounds as if his friends act in a similar way and his parents didn't have a healthy relationship for him to model his future relationships on - you are the psychologist.
If you don't want to leave him and face the difficulties that that might bring, and I think you do love him, then concentrate on your children and building up your career. Perhaps a swap, north pole for young offenders?

OP, in the nicest possible way (and I appreciate it's maybe easier than reality) but I think you are deluding yourself to think you aren't bottom of his list..You're only not bottom of the list because you're doing what he wants (all the bloody time) but when you put forward your own desires and wants (getting a part time job) you can only do this if it fits in with him and the children. It's all about him. Where do you come into any of this? And I don't mean, oh I'll get a nice day on Sunday or he gives me a nice life, I swan around. I mean you as an individual. Your wants, needs, passions, fulfillments, desires.
And of course he ll treat you well on mother's day...It's all part of his image of being the perfect father, husband, business man, charity worker, ice warrior etc. Just another thing to massage his ego and keep you in your place.

And I agree you need to stop with the forces comparisons...It's completely irrelevant to your situation.

And you may use the word 'traditional' but we all know traditional means sexist when it comes to home roles.

My opinion of your DH would be entirely improved if you even felt you could ask him if you could have a 3 month trip away while he stayed at home. But that's the thing, not only would it ever happen, I don't think you could even ask him. That's not a partnership. It's not even close to being one.

My dad was in the forces so I do think you are being a bit unreasonable.

I think the key issue here is that your priorities are 1) The DCs, 2) Your DH, 3) Your MIL and 4) yourself.

You knew that you weren't top of your DH's priority list, but thought that your DCs might be higher up his list than they actually appear to be and that's what's shocked you.

You're right - it's very easy for us to sit here and give you advice, we aren't living your life and clearly your DH must have lots of redeeming features otherwise you wouldn't be together with him.

There's a lot of cognitive dissonance coming out in your posts. I feel that you keep telling yourself you should be happy with all that you've got, and yet it appears that you are not, but you don't want to delve down too deeply into why that might be.

You went ahead with your training. That was a big step for you. So keep doing the stuff that works for you - stop asking for permission from your DH, he generally doesn't from you except when he's pushing the boundaries of his own fairly selfish limits . Get a job. Don't visit MIL every day. Don't spend hours cooking for visitors you don't even want to come for dinner.

We'd all like to go on the trip of a lifetime, but we realise that we can't because we have actual real lives to be getting on with. Unless your husband is bear grils then I would not put up with this nonsense.

Apologies have skimmed the full thread but not read in detail.

Oh my god. Yorick, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I have to say your post yesterday about not being able to find a "space suit big enough to fit his ego"will stay with me as well

Point taken though -really.

Hulder - this sounds hideous. I hadn't even factored in flesh-eating diseases. This is ridiculous.

I know I do a lot for the kids and DH, I was just talking about how some people could perceive me. But thankyou!

It does look spends too much time on google like they've been trying to get this expedition off the ground in this format - 4 teams of newly trained volunteers doing 20 days each - since at least 2010!

It's not happened yet and they are still recruiting volunteers so clearly some people can see it for what it is.