Bizarre upsetting situation

[Ellaenchanted10]

This is my first post so bear with me. I've been with dh for 12 years and we have one dd together and are expecting another this year. We live 10 mins down the road from MIL and FIL and see them every week/2 weeks (although mil often pops in on week days too to see dd). He's always been close with his family or at least that's the impression I've been given over the years - we even lived with them for 3.

Since the beginning of the year my husband has been increasingly reluctant to see them always making excuses when they ask to go for lunches, pop round for a visit or take dd out for the day. It's come to the point where it's incredibly obvious and after speaking to dh about it he's told me he wants to cut contact. I really don't know what to make of this its completely out of the blue. I've asked over and over why and he just says he has no need for them in his life any more and it would be easier to just not see them. This has horrified me!!! I'm really close with my own family and could not imagine cutting anyone from my life especially without any kind of reason!! I'm seriously concerned about him and why he's made such a spontaneous decision which will really hurt his family.

A bit of insight into my relationship with MIL and FIL - we have always got on really well up until about 2 years ago. They started acting cold towards me MIL being highly passive aggressive and FIL just downright rude and aggressive (really don't know which is worse). DH has noticed this and thinks it's because we had a very busy year during that period and were unable to see them often (I had hyperemsis and hardly got out of bed most weekends and DH had huge work commitments meaning he didn't have time for anyone). He thinks they blame me for this and tried to keep them from DH although we can't figure out why? Anyway since then its been frosty but they've kept up visits and I occasionally will make up an excuse to leave dd with MIL during the week for an hour or 2 so they get quality time together and rarely refuse her when she asks to visit. Saying all of this I have no idea if this has impacted his decision or not - he claims no but I am clutching at straws as it seems bizarre. Have spoken to SIL about this which DH is a little miffed about as she came round to talk to him and he says it's none of her business. She's very upset and has begged him to reconsider cutting their parents out. SIL has confirmed to me that they have noticed the increasing distance and think it's me trying to stop them from seeing DD which I fully expected as DH has always been a bit of a golden boy in their family. DH thinks I need to drop the subject, accept his decision and stop dramatising everything - he's put it down to pregnancy hormones. I don't think I'm dramatising. I think this IS a big deal and a big mistake which he can't take back once its done and they miss out on dd and new baby's early years. AIBU? Or is he? And more importantly WWYD?

Ellaenchanted I am sorry you are going through this.

I am pleased to hear you say "I have made the decision after reading these replies to stay out of it."

Because:

"they really have been great GP even if they have been shit PIL." No, they are not nice people if they are horrible to you and that doesn't make them nice grandparents.

To b honest it sounds like your own mum has not been great to you so your radar of what makes someone a good influence may be a bit off. You say that grandparents shouldn't have their grandchildren torn from you. But I'd rather say that children should not be exposed to unpleasant, toxic people just because they are related to them.

I have read a thread here where someone's mum turned her own daughter against her. I just think if someone is a bad influence on your kids, no matter they look after them, or love them, or buy them gifts or take them out, if they do not respect the children's mum - they are not a good influence on that child/those children.

Maybe your husband has decided this.

Your description of your FIL insisting you come down and speak to him and coming into your room is really troubling, this shows no respect for you or their son. This is not normal. My FIL would never do this. Your FIL's opinions on pregnancy or on your pregnancy are of no consequence.

I think you need to get a bit more assertive and realise that some people in your life has treated you badly and you do not need to put up with it.

I say this with the best possible intentions.

I think that they have said something so terrible about you that he cannot repeat it to you, and rather than confront them about it he has decided to cut them out.

not behind his back, but some posts have good as said insist it happens

I'm another who would want an explanation. Clearly there has to be some reason for this but I think some posters are filling in the blanks, possibly based on their own experiences to be fair. The problem is he's not giving you, his wife, a reason for this and you really shouldn't be left to guess what it might be!

Certainly his parents sound difficult but no worse than the thousands of mil threads I've read over the years. Yes, families/in laws may bitch behind each others backs, overstep boundaries and so on but your DH seems to have gone from 0 to 60 here.

Op you say he's been saying this since January. In your shoes by now I'd be telling DH I need a hell of a lot more than his explanation, how exactly does the conversation go? My mind would be coming up with all sorts - childhood abuse, concern about whether he thinks my dc might be at risk for some reason. Surely he can grasp that he needs to tell you what has brought him to this decision?

I agree that if he can cut them out this way without being able to give his own wife any kind of explanation then he is certainly capable of doing this to you in the future. There's being supportive and then there's blindly accepting something that makes no sense to you and has the potential to cause hurt and upset to a lot of people including your own dc.

they really have been great GP even if they have been shit PIL." No, they are not nice people if they are horrible to you and that doesn't make them nice grandparents

exactly! good grandparents support their grandchildren's primary carers. My MIL is a good grandparent, she supports me because I am her grandchildren's mother, and you can't be "nice" to the kids whilst making their parents unhappy, that's not really good for the kids.

I think that they have said something so terrible about you that he cannot repeat it to you, and rather than confront them about it he has decided to cut them out
Maybe
Or
He did confront them and it went ugly
Or
He knows from the 1000 other times they behaved that way, that there is no point in confronting these people
maybe?

I think they have said something about you and its unkind, so he doesn't want to tell you., to protect you. He does need to give you more explanation but maybe see them less and wait for him to say more before you go NC

Not sure how SIL got dragged in - can she shed any light?

I agree, if he doesn't want to see them. Why would you let the kids see them and alone if they are 'toxic'. Keep the kids away - you don't want them saying unkind things to the children.

Clearly there has to be some reason for this but I think some posters are filling in the blanks, possibly based on their own experiences to be fair.

Yes I am absolutely basing this on my own experince but I am only presenting it as a possibility, to be fair:

In my case, there are no blanks to fill in! People we mutually know want to know what we fell out over, and the answer I'm afraid is nothing! there was no big blow up! I just ran out of energy. I had enough of being made to feel shit in tiny petty ways that you can't really confront without sounding petty. I had enough of trying to pretend we were a caring loving family and acting the part, but not feeling love from them. I'm sorry, there really is nothing to tell about the time when I went NC, nothing bit happened, no skeletons coming out of family closets, and no big row. I just had enough of feeling sad and drained and angry and hurt all the time.

LEELULUMPKIN "He would go NC totally out of loyalty to me but I have insisted that our DS should have a relationship with them regardless of what their opinion of me is." I cannot understand why grandparent relationships are so valued on here. Either someone is a good person to be in contact with or they are not. If they are not, then the fact you are related to them is of little consequence.

"I couldn't give a toss what their opinion of me is." That's fine if their opinion stays their opinion, but what if they influence your son negatively towards you?

Pallisers "The problem is (well it would be for me) how comfortable do you feel being married to someone who seems to be able to calmly turn off his emotions and knock 2 people out of his life without any reason." But he may well have a reason, just not feel able to articulate it.

"Even if he said, look I have my reasons but don't want to talk about it. otherwise I'd be thinking "well are you going to get tired of me or the kids some day the same way?""

That's quite a stretch, his parents have shown they are not very nice people, maybe he has got tired of playing happy families with them, maybe he knows more than he feels able to say. That doesn't mean for a moment he would feel that way about his wife or his children.

Ellaenchanted "However there were a lot of good times where we all got on, they helped us get on the property ladder, contributed to our wedding, helped completely re decorate our house which took months....as I said they're not all bad." They have helped you materially which is brilliant, but that is not the same as emotional support and it may be that your dh has decided that he doesn't want their practical help because maybe it comes with ties.

Sunshineandlaughter how can the OP have "... a regular weekly time to look after your kids and agree this with your oh - he can stay nc - you drop off and pick up. Invent a reason to need this babysitting if you must. Makes sure they still see them and leaves a small communication channel open." If her dh doesn't want the kids to see his parents? If he does, that is fine, but if he does not, that is a different matter.

HidingFromDD so sorry to hear of your experiences, you know, now, I hope, it is never your fault.

I would find it difficult to just let go.

Simply because you are meant to be a team.

It's also not just about him, but your child. His decision is also depriving them of their grandparents- and as the mother I think it's not unreasonable to know why.

He may think he's protecting you or him, but in my mind without an answer the reasons I could imagine "why" worse still him not trusting me enough to tell me would really eat away at me.

Completely agree about the two faced "I love you but don't like your mum"... kids see that, they see that their mother is being treated poorly and it is confusing and hurtful for them. They may not now, but they will later and they will learn that it is ok for people to be hurtful and that you won't do anything about it for the sake of family harmony.

Italian - the op's oh isn't and shouldn't be the dictator in the household - she should decide who her kids see too and I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist on him that the children keep up their normal by seeing the grandparents - if he doesn't want this then he nerfs to explain more. It's kind of abusive behaviour to make unilateral decisions without even an explanation

Nice grandparents are worth their weight in gold (just incase this gets picked up by the "MNers HATE GRANDPARENTS" crew)
but no grandparents are better than horrible grandparents

Re his trustworthiness as a husband, well, if the OP becomes similar to how the parents have been described, then why shouldn't he leave her, otherwise, why wouldn't you want to be in a relationship with someone who has some boundaries re acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in a relationship.

Italian - the op's oh isn't and shouldn't be the dictator in the household - she should decide who her kids see too and I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist on him that the children keep up their normal by seeing the grandparents - if he doesn't want this then he nerfs to explain more. It's kind of abusive behaviour to make unilateral decisions without even an explanation

But the OP should dictate to him what happens to his kids regarding his parents

ummmmm

No... just saying she should tell him what she wants. Crikey tinsel you are out for an argument tonight!

But Tinsel that is an explanation and a very valid one too. I'm not for a moment suggesting he must come up with a big gasp type reason because as you've pointed out it's usually a build up of years of crap. I do get that honestly.

The difficulty I have here is that while Op can give examples of things that she feels strongly about, the DH is giving her nothing. If he said to her what you have said that would be different but she's getting nothing from him. In this situation I would be concerned if my DH couldn't or wouldn't articulate this to me and It would worry me a lot. Not just the going NC but how he comes to big decisions like this, how we communicate, trust etc. I genuinely would worry that if "I don't need them anymore" is what he considers a valid reason to cut off his parents, might it be a valid reason to end our relationship down the line?

He should be honest with them and tell him the reasons why he is cutting contact. He should also make it clear to them that you are not the instigator of this. He is.

see Can'tSleep, what the OPs DH has said is exactly what I say, maybe a bit shorter, but pretty much.

It may well be that his background has nothing else in common with mine, but just saying, that sometimes there is nothing more to things than people say

Or it may be that the OP has already witnessed the reasons why he's had enough (in smaller, shorter, doses), but her stance of "but family is important no matter what" means that there's nothing else to discuss? She knows what they're like but doesn't see the problem, and he does?

Tinsel I'm pretty sure that the OP's DH is a manchild and will repair his relationship with his parents eventually. So there is no point in taking sides or depriving DC of contact.

I wonder does the DH feel that OP's largely pragmatic & forgiving attitude to her own family may mean that whatever reason he provides, she will try to pull it apart and minimise it?

Just a thought.

Completely agree about the two faced "I love you but don't like your mum"... kids see that, they see that their mother is being treated poorly and it is confusing and hurtful for them. They may not now, but they will later and they will learn that it is ok for people to be hurtful and that you won't do anything about it for the sake of family harmony.

yy to this too. I have been the product of this from both sets of GPs. The only GP I have any remote fondness for was my PGF who didn't bother with these games and was genuinely nice but not nice enough to tell my PGM to STFU.

The sister I mentioned earlier repeats the behaviour of my PGM, the GP we had most contact with, because that behaviour is ok in families as far as she is concerned. I spent years trying to keep the family harmony thinking it was normal. Its not.

I think that is very likely Beryl

Tinsel I'm pretty sure that the OP's DH is a manchild and will repair his relationship with his parents eventually hmm, maybe, but tantrumey man-child types tend to shout their grievences from the roof top no?

This is another misconception that I come up against, that we can "make up", "repair the rift"… look! if it could be fixed then why couldn't I fix it in the 36 years that I WAS in contact with them? Getting back in touch won't "repair" anything, the relationship was broken to start with, there's nothing to go back to except a broken hurtful relationship. NC is the fix/repair!

I don't know tinsel maybe so but in a healthy marriage I'd need a more detailed discussion. Not to overrule him, simply to be clear on what we are doing and why.

Op gives the impression she's asked and asked so it sounds like she's open to a conversation but he's not. He's asking that she go along with this decision yet it will be very hard for them to present a united front on this if she doesn't know quite how they came to this.

There has to be a very real possibility that the ILs phone her or show up at the door upset and asking why they can no longer see GC. What does Op say or do? Does she hang up or close the door on them? Pretty stressful and upsetting for her having to enforce this decision, he doesn't have to explain himself to all and sundry but his wife deserves more.

I have only read about half the thread then I lost patience. I think your DH is the very opposite of most men complained about on MIL/PIL threads. You know, the ones where people respond with 'You don't have a MIL/PIL problem, you have a DH problem'.

You have been too easy going and laid back and accepted a whole load of shit from your ILs. Your DH, on the other hand, is no longer prepared to accept it.

Be glad. Understand he is doing he best for you and your family. See that he has broken away from their crap and be glad of it. Show some gratitude that he has broken away from them, even though he may be too torn right now to actually discuss it, as that might make it too real for him!

Eats "...is decision is also depriving them of their grandparents..."

Maybe his decision is 'depriving' the child/ren of people who are not nice to know, and he would know.

How unpleasant for a child to grow up knowing, we love you, but we really do not like your mum. A recipe for split loyalties and guilt, I am guessing!

Sunshineandlaughter "Italian - the op's oh isn't and shouldn't be the dictator in the household - she should decide who her kids see too..." No, if one parent has a good reason for kids not to see a certain person the other partner should support. In this case the DH knows the OP's in laws.

Grandparents do not have rights to see their grandchildren, and grandparents are not alway good people to be around kids.

"I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist on him that the children keep up their normal by seeing the grandparents" Why is it ever right for a parent to insist this against the other parent's will. This would rightly cause potential problems in the family, not the wider family, the immediate family. Why should the OP risk her relationship with her own dh for the sake of two people who don not like her and cannot conceal their dislike of her.

"No... just saying she should tell him what she wants."

Why would the OP want the kids to have a relationship with them when her husband does not?

The only reason I can see if to keep up the appearance of a happy family. Maybe the OP's dh has decided he doesn't want to do that anymore.

Tinsel there are plenty of clues in the OPs posts that makes me think I have seen this DH phenotype on action before, and that she won't win by taking sides.

Why are you so keen for the OP to burn her bridges? She seems diplomatic and that is the way it should stay.