To wonder why England wants to keep Scotland?

[user1481215005]

Or am I being really thick? NS has been causing no end of grief the past few years always complaining about how bad Scotland has it (despite receiving more money for Scotland than Scotland gives back) also promising English votes for English laws and then changing that when something she didn't like can up. Her financial plan depends on the North Sea oil. If Scotland keeps rights to that it'll last fifty years tops before oil runs out. She just seems to be a constant pain and wants special treatment which wales and NI don't ever seem to get. I do love Scotland but right now I'm inclined to cheerily wave them off and wish the good luck.

The Thatcher years where the mining industry and others were ruined - that would not have happened without the union

You are preaching to the converted on thatcher I 'm afraid. My own parents left because of this. Now they have returned to see themselves, their own childeren and grandchildren rejected by the place they missed and longed for.

They have both said to me they are so ashamed to be scottish and that makes me heartbroken.

I'm sorry to hear that, Gruff. But - forgive me - you said earlier 'if I thought the union was harmful I would vote yes'. And you agree it has been harmful.

"To be brutally honest, if the SNP loses another referendum, even the formidable Ruth Davidson will not be able to prevent Scotland being plundered by this government.’ - Simon Wren-Lewis Professor of Economic Policy at the Blavatnik School of Government, Oxford University

It IS NOT HARMING PEOPLE NOW!!!

This is fucking petty to say the least. We are benefiting from the union now and that is set to continue. The uk government have had a right old kick up the arse.

If you rip the union down I just want you to be prepared to see that the calm and reasonable people who vote "with their heads" for the union may hate you with all of their person.

This referendum is being repeated because of the material change in circumstances, remember?

No, that's just the latest "thing" the SNP have seized on to justify their position

Do people really have such short memories that they don't recall agitation for a second vote almost as soon as the previous one was over?

I do not recall any agitation for a second vote right away like you are describing. NS stated her regret but her intention to wait until a majority of Scottish voters wanted a new one. Show me otherwise please?

Gruff, no need to shout, thanks.

I am sorry that you will hate me with all of your person if we gain independence Gruff. I will not hate you.

NS stated her regret but her intention to wait until a majority of Scottish voters wanted a new one.

So where is her proof that they do now? All indications are that they don't.

There was agitation for it before it had even begone. It was a shitty trick.

She said if we leave the eu we are having another ref

People (unionists) voted to stay in to save the union.

It didn't pay off as the eu was rejected by more in england.

The SNP knew that if this happened it was the ultimate chance to press for another.

Do they think we are all blind?

She was straight on the telly making out the english were all xenephobic.

No, that's just the latest "thing" the SNP have seized on to justify their position

Do people really have such short memories that they don't recall agitation for a second vote almost as soon as the previous one was over

The "45" campaign was up and running the same day.

Some people clearly have extremely short memories.

It won't be amicable. Like the partner who walks out when life is getting tough, the other partner will not easily forgive or forget.

Most couples are actually better off economically together than apart.

It will very much not be amicable.

The only problem is the husband is small and vulnerable and his wife is a fecking sumo wrestler. Hell hath no fury and all that.

So which is it - it can't be both. A matter of the heart and hang the economy, or it's only fears about the economy that are stopping people voting for independence?

Yes it is, my heart is in both. It is both at the moment. You are throwing away one if you vote yes that is all

The yessers / Nats really don't like the idea that No comes from the head and the heart. Or they peddle the idea that if it's from the heart then only because you are some sort of bigoted UKIP/BNP / sectarian supporter.

I know lass. Had it from crazy nat family members already.

Most couples are actually better off economically together than apart.

• Not if one of them is taking all the other's money and giving back pocket money, spending the ' family' budget on big ticket items one doesn't want or get to use etc etc.

What a load of crap.

We are doing great thanks to Barnet.

Most of the spending decisions are made by fish face anyway.

Most of the decisions fishface makes are shite that is all.

Gruffalo, your tone is unfortunate. I'm feeling a bit bruised from your posts so I'm away now. Maybe be back to debate more later.

Ok nyx... I would say that I am sorry, but the reality is I no longer care for people willing to destroy my country. I will never forgive them and I know I am not alone. I hope for your sake though that if you fail in your attempts to destroy the country, that the government will have mercy for you.

I wanted Scotland to stay last time and I want them to stay this time round. Whether England subsidises Scotland or the other way round is irrelevant to me, I just feel we're a small country to begin with and breaking ourselves up into yet smaller sub divisions feels wrong.
Sooner or later a second referendum will go ahead and when it does I fear Westminster will not have the time or the energy, with Brexit ongoing, to launch an effective 'No' campaign, however the SNP will put their heart and soul into the 'Yes' campaign, and my understanding was that a proportion of Yes campaigners were very intimidating last time around. If by some miracle the No's have it let's hope this issue will be well and truly put to bed and we can stop having referendums (at £15.8m a pop) in the hope the SNP finally gets the answer they want.

Thanks Desmond.

The SNP are just dirty opportunists. I pray to god that I can get out of here if they succeed.

I hope you do go Gruff. You seem like a really horrible person.

Nobody wants to call out Gruffalo for her tone????

Except one (cross post!)