To wonder why England wants to keep Scotland?

[user1481215005]

Or am I being really thick? NS has been causing no end of grief the past few years always complaining about how bad Scotland has it (despite receiving more money for Scotland than Scotland gives back) also promising English votes for English laws and then changing that when something she didn't like can up. Her financial plan depends on the North Sea oil. If Scotland keeps rights to that it'll last fifty years tops before oil runs out. She just seems to be a constant pain and wants special treatment which wales and NI don't ever seem to get. I do love Scotland but right now I'm inclined to cheerily wave them off and wish the good luck.

What about respecting the votes of the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the Brexit referendum.?

What about respecting the votes of the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the Brexit referendum.?

It was a UK vote not individual countries!

We have no idea how many Scots 'really' want to stay in the EU, as NS conflated the Brexit vote with another Indy Ref. It appears over the last week or so that more Scots are not bothered about the EU than would be suggested by the EU referendum result.

In your opinion

In their opinion what? That indyref wasn't divisive and caused division?

My DBIL had his house window smashed and my DSIL was swarn and spat at.

It was a UK vote not individual countries

But the votes of individual countries are known. Is it fair and democratic for WM to entirely ignore the wishes of half of the union countries + Gibraltar?

Is it fair and democratic for WM to say "no, you can't leave the union". That's not a union, that's dictating to the colonies.

Because a lot of the people voted No as we were told it was a sure fire way to remain in the EU. That was a main point to vote No. Then we have the brexit result where scotlands majority was to remain in EU (as expected since thats why we voted No) and oh look we are leaving EU. So now surely its fair to have a "retrial" based on the fact we know we are leaving?

I really think we should let Scotland go, the people just seem to hate England more and more and they are becoming nothing but trouble makers. They are just a financial burden to the rest of the UK and their deficit is way higher than ours.

Give them a referendum in 2021/22 on condition there is a legal guarantee that it is the final referendum for 25 years.

GBs 3rd way is a pile of poo because it will never be enough, NS wants independence nothing less. Its either in or out, same as with the EU.

In their opinion what

That once a referendum has been had the subject must never ever be up for discussion bargain, even if circumstances dramatically change, and even if the ruling government has a mandate for it.

We have no idea how many Scots 'really' want to stay in the EU, as NS conflated the Brexit vote with another Indy Ref. It appears over the last week or so that more Scots are not bothered about the EU than would be suggested by the EU referendum result.

So what is your solution? Tell the democratically voted for Scottish Parliament that they cannot carry out the promises they were voted in on? Tell the 60%+ of Scots who voted to remain that their voice doesn't matter? Tell the majority of voters who voted for pro indy parties that their votes don't matter?

The only sensible way out of this tangle that I can see is what has been suggested. After the Brexit terms are known, Scots should vote on if they want to remain part of the UK.

Is it fair and democratic for WM to say "no, you can't leave the union". That's not a union, that's dictating to the colonies.

Well as WM hasn't yet been formally asked who knows what they will actually say.

Is it fair and democratic for Alex Salmon to (paraphrasing) that if you don't think a certain way you aren't a true Scot, or for NS to state that she speaks for Scotland?

EUref was one person one vote. It wasn't the vote I wanted but I respect that it was the vote.

I doubt you will be complaining about unfair it is on sections of Scotland if the the result is Yes but swaths of certain parts vote no.

NS and SNP ultimate goal is independence and imo will do virtually anything to get it.

It was not my main point to vote no, and I believe it wasn't most other No voter's main point either. As I said above, the EU referendum result in Scotland was totally skewed by NS's assertion that a remain vote in Scotland, with an overall leave vote would be her cue to trigger Indyref 345 2, so anyone fervently in favour of an independent Scotland would have voted remain whether they wanted to stay in the EU or not. I think the Scottish result would have been far more in line with the rest of the UK if NS hadn't promised another Indyref on a high Scottish remain vote. But of course, we'll never know for sure.....

Tell the 60%+ of Scots who voted to remain that their voice doesn't matter?

Well you don't seem to mind telling those that voted no in 2014 that they don't matter.

How about best of three, four, five?

Piglet... 'I doubt you will be complaining about unfair it is on sections of Scotland if the the result is Yes but swaths of certain parts vote no.'

And remembering the last Indyref, only 2 areas of Scotland voted by a majority to exit the union. Not just the majority of people in Scotland voted No, but a most of the actual landmass of Scotland voted No.

If there is another Indyref godhelpus then I think that there should be a call for a very decent majority of at least 2/3 of the electoral roll to vote for independence before it is actioned. In that way, there may be a small chance of an independence vote not tearing the country apart.

How about best of three, four, five?

How about people stop complaining about democracy?

It was not my main point to vote no, and I believe it wasn't most other No voter's main point either
Ha oh well as long as thats what you believe whats the problem in indy ref 2? Surely the Nos will vote No again so no change? Whats your problem? Scared it might be Yes?

It's pointless debating with hardcore yessers like ItsAll, they will have their referendums come hell or high water and will find any reason at all to base it on - Brexit this time, if they lose indyref2 there will be another grievance in five years. The voices of those who want to remain the union do not matter to them, they are deaf to anyone's opinion that does not match their own obsession with independence.

Sadly, I think the fanaticism of the yes side will eventually wear the pro unionists down. Some like me will leave. Others will stop bothering to vote in referenda - what's the point, when their no vote will be ignored and there will be another referendum in a few years based on the next 'democratic outrage'. They will get their independence eventually, by a narrow majority. And create a new country, not with the clean slate they dream of in their fanciful propaganda but built on the shattered, divided, broken country they have created. I'm sure by this point the rest of the UK will be heartily glad to be rid of them.

I reckon it will take about five years for Scotland to bankrupt itself from independence, and I will be very sad to see that happen to the country I was born in and where my children were born. I will leave the indy fanatics to the mess they have created.

Having a Neverendum isn't democracy, it's tantamount to bullying.

Whisky, no-one I know who voted No did so because of the EU, or 'The Vow'. They voted to maintain the Union.

ItsAll, I don't think you or any other yes voters really understand what democracy means. Sometimes, in a democratic vote, it doesn't go your way. That doesn't mean you get to stamp your foot and demand that there is another vote. Except apparently in independence land, it does.

Mirror - amen.

Dont be so pessimistic mirror. Its all speculation.

will have their referendums come hell or high water and will find any reason at all to base it on

So you don't think a majority of MSPs supporting it is a valid reason?

there will be another grievance in five years

Only if people vote for it.

The voices of those who want to remain the union do not matter to them

Of course they matter, but in democracy majority rules. If sufficient people felt as you do we wouldn't have an SNP led Parliament again.

Sometimes, in a democratic vote, it doesn't go your way.

Like when anti-independence parties aren't in control in Hollywood?

That doesn't mean you get to stamp your foot and demand that there is another vote

If that's what people vote for you do.

No, I think 2 million people voting against independence, the largest number who have ever voted for anything in Scotland, trumps the number of MSPs in Holyrood who were voted in for a number of reasons, not just the desire for another referendum.

You seem utterly oblivious to the damage that a Neverendum will do to Scotland, to businesses, the economy, the people of Scotland who have been set against each other. Just keep having them, on and on and on, eh? Independence at all costs. Nothing else matters.

Frightening, that there are so many people like you, so utterly blinkered to the wounds that this endless division is causing.

Is it a difficult concept to you that you may vote SNP for other policies but not wish to leave the union?

Brexit represents the will of the people. The Scottish ones too. We counted the country as a whole.
Do you anticipate freedom of travel its to the rest of the U.K. If you leave?

Totally agree Mirror.

2 million people voting against independence

And voted to remain in a UK that has significantly changed since then.

Just keep having them, on and on and on, eh?.

If thats what people vote for, yes.

Frightening, that there are so many people like you

So many of us that we represent the majority in the Scottish parliament. It is your view that is less popular, not mine.