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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask how you feel about Article 50 being triggered tomorrow

755 replies

Ehsamy · 13/03/2017 11:37

or at some point this month?

And I know there is a EU board tucked away somewhere but I'm interested in everyone's views.

OP posts:
80sMum · 14/03/2017 21:09

I want to live in a true democracy with open and transparent government which I can understand, engage with and try to influence.

^Eh? ! Wasn't it the Remain voters who were pressing for this, not the Leavers??!

I thought all the Leavers were against the law suit that forced the government to comply with the constitution, thereby having to put a bill before Parliament and get it through the Lords? Weren't the high court judges dubbed "enemies of the people" by the Daily whatnot?

It seemed to me that Leavers were very anti democratic and simply wanted Brexit at any cost!

notangelinajolie · 14/03/2017 21:11

I doubt leavers gave EU citizens in UK much of a thought in the polling booth last June

Whichever way anyone voted I'm sure they did it with good intention and after much thought. How can you possibly know what was in the minds of voters? And just for balance - did remainers give much thought to the forgotten UK citizens ie don't live in London?

Brexit voters are utterly delusional

And of course Remain voters are all decent, honest and virtous.

This thread is going nowhere. The OP was interested in everyones' views but it's clear now that doesn't apply to everyone. I'm leaving now, please continue talking amongst yourselves. Thankyou to the posters that took time to post without resorting to name calling - but I can see that some just can't resist.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 14/03/2017 21:13

Nothing open and transparent about the leave campaign or what government is doing.

WrongTrouser · 14/03/2017 21:14

If you care about global warming/climate change & the environment, you sure did put your x in the wrong box, WrongTrouser

No, I didn't.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 14/03/2017 21:15

I don't live in London and voted remain. Lpool, Manchester, glasgow, Newcastle voted remain also.

Alfieisnoisy · 14/03/2017 21:17

I voted Remain in an area where over 70% voted to Leave. I voted Remain because I really didn't trust either side...and I seriously disliked many high profile people on the Leave campaign.

However I respect the result and I think we need to get on with it now. I just hope and pray that in the future we don't look back and see it as a massive mistake.

...and yes...my friends here who are European and struggling because they face an uncertain future are a big factor for me. Leaving them without any certainty is beyond disgusting and makes me ashamed to be British,

WrongTrouser · 14/03/2017 21:23

I thought all the Leavers were against the law suit that forced the government to comply with the constitution, thereby having to put a bill before Parliament and get it through the Lords? Weren't the high court judges dubbed "enemies of the people" by the Daily whatnot?

I always find a useful technique when talking about groups of people is to remember they are individuals and that just because they agree on one thing, amazingly, I know, doesn't mean they agree on everything else. It's a handy little tactic, I find.

If you search through my posts you will see that I agreed with, and welcomed, the court judgement that meant the HoC had to debate and vote on A50. I have also never bought the Daily whatnot. And guess what, my name isn't Nigel I know! Incredible isn't it?

TheElementsSong · 14/03/2017 21:30

Does that mean I can't criticise the EU if I think it is not doing what it should/could to make Brexit as smooth as possible for EU nationals in the UK? Is it somehow above criticism?

And I said the EU was above criticism where?

This entire sorry mess (or glorious success, depending on one's POV) was predicated on 40-odd years of criticism and moaning about the perceived ghastliness of the monstrous superstate and its oppression of our noble people. Criticise away to your heart's content!

HelenaDove · 14/03/2017 21:34

Coty. I recognise that name They make a lot of the celebrity fragrances.

Although theyve made others in the past too. Theyve been going for decades.

PageNowFoundFileUnderSpartacus · 14/03/2017 21:36

It's 450 jobs going in Northumberland. My parents live about 2 miles from the Coty factory and it's going to devastate the community as it is far and away the biggest employer in that spot.

WatchHowISoar · 14/03/2017 22:09

I don't want it to happen but since it is I would rather they start doing things sooner than later. Limbo isn't good especially since we are just waiting for it to happen.

80sMum · 14/03/2017 22:14

WrongTrouser well said. Sorry, I shouldn't have directed my comment at you personally. Although I didn't name you, I used a quote from one of your posts. You are quite right, of course, and I shouldn't have made such a sweeping and stereotyped assumption.

yolofish · 14/03/2017 22:28

my Irish cousin, married to a south american, been here for over 20 years, working, paying taxes etc, 2 small kids born in Britain - they have no assurance of where their future might lie. similarly my 87 year old irish mother who is not sure whether she had british citizenship or not - been here 70 years, married to a serving military officer, worked, paid taxes etc - no assurance. what does the future hold for these people, and the repercussions?

Lalelou · 14/03/2017 22:31

"I want to live in a true democracy with open and transparent government" not our current government then?

WrongTrouser · 14/03/2017 22:46

Thank you 80sMum

SewMeARiver · 14/03/2017 23:01

wrongtrouser do you think the british government will remain seriously committed to reducing air pollution in any meaningful way post brexit? In fact haven't we consistently broken eu limits? Do you believe there's likely to be more or less investment in tackling environmental issues like global warming or air pollution without eu subsidies?

What do think the governments position on allowing a feee for all on fracking will be?

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.independent.co.uk/environment/eu-referendum-brexit-will-lead-to-fracking-free-for-all-as-environmental-regulation-will-be-up-for-a7093646.html&ved=0ahUKEwiN6OmFjNfSAhVJF8AKHdORDMMQFggnMAI&usg=AFQjCNHp6VTfCVKHCnRoS6aVys_7D2nYkw&sig2=8LDlHiEwj6eAhv2y4sTUIw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.independent.co.uk/environment/eu-referendum-brexit-will-lead-to-fracking-free-for-all-as-environmental-regulation-will-be-up-for-a7093646.html&ved=0ahUKEwiN6OmFjNfSAhVJF8AKHdORDMMQFggnMAI&usg=AFQjCNHp6VTfCVKHCnRoS6aVys_7D2nYkw&sig2=8LDlHiEwj6eAhv2y4sTUIw

Sorry but I can't see how voting brexit and the aim of wanting to make real global impact on environmental issues ( even in just the uk) are compatible.

WrongTrouser · 14/03/2017 23:25

Brief reply for now (late). Please read this article by George Monbiot. nb Odd title, given what he says about the effect of the EU on the environment.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/20/brexiters-make-britain-countryside-like-kansas

I do not see the European Union as a lost Avalon. It brought us much that is good, such as directives that enable us to hold our governments to account for their environmental failures. But the good things it has done for the living world are counteracted – perhaps much more than counteracted – by a few astonishing idiocies. They arise from remote, unresponsive authority that is accessible to corporate lobby groups but not to mere mortals. In some respects the Brexit campaigners were right – though generally for the wrong reasons

One of these policies is the rule that only bare land is eligible for most farm subsidies. This perverse incentive for destruction has obliterated wildlife and natural beauty across hundreds of thousands of hectares. It threatens millions more. The failure of politicians and environmental groups tocampaign against this perversity – or even to mention it - is both mystifying and shameful

Then there is the European insistence that much of our transport fuel be replaced by biodiesel. I’ve been inveighing against the manufacture of biodiesel from crops since 2004, and have often been mocked for it. Now we know not only that it causes much greater greenhouse gas emissions than the fuel it replaces, but also that it’s a major cause of perhaps the greatest environmental disaster ofthe 21st century so far: the mass obliteration of the rainforests of Indonesia and Malaysia, driven in large part by palm oil production

Leaked figures released in June suggest biodiesel now accounts for 45% of the palm oil used in Europe. With one thoughtless policy – which was designed, under a lobbying onslaught, to avert the need for tougher rules on car manufacturers – the European commission has annulled all the environmental good it has ever done

TheWoodlander · 14/03/2017 23:35

It's just a coincidence that the Brexit Campaign was chock full of climate change deniers then - And that the Green Party, Greenpeace, FOE, and afaik every other environmental group was for Remain.

SewMeARiver · 14/03/2017 23:48

The woodlander makes a point. Also how can we affect eu policy decisions on the environment if we cannot have a say? Do you believe we would even have set the targets for cleaning our beaches and reducing air pollution if we hadn't joined the eu? And you haven't answered whether you think there will be more or less investment by the government post brexit in tackling real discernible issues like air pollution which affects us directly?

But I'm tired too so not expecting an answer tonight.

fulloffunreally · 14/03/2017 23:57

So Article 50 will be triggered with a HoC and Lords vote refusing to guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK. That was very fair alright.

The EU said it would not do anything until A50 was triggered.

So the standoff begins.

But in fairness, I do think that there WILL be a reciprocal arrangement, I am sure of it. No entity could be as cruel as the UK was in denying EU citizen rights BEFORE it had the balls/cojones to actually trigger the fekkin Article and therefore be on the same footing as the EU.

Oh no. Just make EU citizens here very nervous and unsure.Awful.

Shame on UK and the yes men/women in the Parliament.

frumpet · 15/03/2017 06:49

Wrongtrousers I respect the fact that you have a completely different opinion to me with regards the EU , although possibly not completely different as I have always had some misgivings about it's transparency and structure , but I struggle to understand your opinion that is has harmed communities in the UK ? .

I believe that UK Goverments have harmed communities , those Goverments made up of democratically elected MP's , they have had the power to change lives for the better but have often chosen not to .

I cannot help feeling that there are going to be an awful lot of Leave voters who are going to be disappointed with the final outcome of leaving the EU , when it eventually happens years down the line I suspect the current sense of power that many feel will have waned and will have been replaced with something a little less intoxicating .

Lalelou · 15/03/2017 08:17

Well said frumpet

Badders123 · 15/03/2017 08:42

Absolutely frumpet

I'm sure my current migraine is due to what's happening ATM....

😞

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/03/2017 09:39

Fascinating article, wrongtrousers - I confess I wasn't aware of some of that

Also an interesting point from Woodlander about the environmental lobby and sceptics being so divided on the EU issue. This leads me to wonder whether money has anything to do with the lobbyists' position, and where they get their funding from

Off to do some research ...

DaisyDrip · 15/03/2017 10:23

I'm quite excited to see what the future will bring. Yes, for now there is the unknown but I have a good feeling about it all. I didn't vote leave due to immigration but so we could make and implement our own laws (among other reasons). Yes, there are a few nerves but I think the UK is strong enough to come through this much better than we are now under the bureaucratic and mainly unelected EU.

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