To ask how you feel about Article 50 being triggered tomorrow

[Ehsamy]

or at some point this month?

And I know there is a EU board tucked away somewhere but I'm interested in everyone's views.

Underparmummy

You mean how dare Leavers have a different opinion to you ?!?!

How dare someone look at an issue and form a different opinion to you?!?!

How dare you assume my decision was frivolous?!?!?

To be honest, condescending self righteous people who make such assumptions need to take a long hard cold look at themselves.

But, unlike you, I respect you might have a different opinion.

Do others the same courtesy before you open your mouth again.

And "how dare" I is because I have a vote, and my vote has the same value as the next person's vote, and I don't have to ask your permission before I exercise my democratic rights

There are strong views on both sides. I'm a Remainer but we are going to have to make the best of it. I don't believe Eu countries will be throwing long settled people out. However they may end up having to pay for health care or insurance or have expensive visa payments to make I suppose.

There certainly is the offer from the EU that it will allow Uk citizens apply for a European citizenship if they want to in due course and probably for most of us even those who don't often leave the UK we we will need to weigh up if that citzenship eg is cheaper than buying a visa every time we visit France on holiday (let us not forget loads of British people cannot afford to leave the UK- I know people without even passports by the way so all this talk of travel is pie in the sky for the real poor of the UK)

Wrongtrouser wasn't that just a sneaky attempt to hedge bets and start "informal" piecemeal negotiations left right and centre without actually triggering article 50?

Wrong have you ever considered that it isn't true?

"A spokeswoman for Angela Merkel rejected claims that most other leaders had been willing to sign an early reciprocal deal on migrants’ rights, stating there was “complete unanimity” that such negotiations could not take place until article 50 was triggered.

“The 27 heads of state have already made clear in their joint statement on 29 June 2016 – so immediately after the referendum – that participation in the single market goes hand in hand with all four freedoms of the single market, and on this question all member states are unanimous,” said the German chancellor’s spokeswoman, Ulrike Demmer. “There is also complete unanimity that there can be no pre-negotiations with Great Britain before notification.”

"The prevailing view among officials in Berlin is that even though Germany and Britain have roughly equivalent numbers of emigrants living in each other’s countries – and therefore a joint interest in securing their rights – agreeing on an early deal would be more easily said than done."

"Germany has denied it rebuffed an attempt by Theresa May to seal an early deal on citizens’ rights post-Brexit, and reiterated that there was “complete unanimity” among the EU’s 27 member states that the subject could only be discussed once Britain had triggered article 50."

"The Tory MP Peter Lilley told the Brexit select committee on Wednesday that Germany was one of the two countries the prime minister was referring to when she said in her Brexit speech on Tuesday she could not get full support from the 27 remaining member states for a deal on the rights of EU citizens in Britain and UK nationals on the continent."

Peter Lilley could be saying anything...... where is the proof?

The fact is that negotiations can only begin after a 50 is invoked.

Whops
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/18/germany-theresa-may-eu-27-angela-merkel-article-50-citizens-rights

5more I'm sure it's open to interpretation (and there wasn't much transparency about the process - surprise). I saw it as an attempt by TM to resolve the uncertainty for EU and UK nationals as early as possible. I do find it very strange that almost no-one seems interested in the EU's role in scuppering an early deal and that all the anger is vented at the UK gov it's almost as if people see the EU as an imovable, uninfluencable beast that there is no point trying to lobby

Wrong
I have much less issue with the EU countries because
1- they aren't using British people as bargaining chips and certainly have neve said they will use people as a way to put pressure on the uk
2- as I said before, because they've actually have already proposed what could be a nice olive branch (the eu citizenship for Brits) that has never even be acknowledge by the government.

So in effect what I can see is the EU acting in a humane way, respecting citizens, and trying to sort it out b giving possible solutions.
Whereas the UK has instead gone all gun blazing wo a care about people, incl its own citizens that will be affected (because eu citizens are part of their family or because they are Brits living in the EU). And as said that it's OK to use them for its own benefit, wo a care of the effects.

So yep I'm not happy with the uk stance.
I'm not angry at the eu who has said and done very little so far (see for example the answer sent to people who were rejected for the PRC - prepare to leave!)

The EU has just stuck to its rules. All negociations, incl eu citizens in the uk, Brits in the eu, will be done according to the right chenils SFTER Art50 is triggered.

Why do you expect the EU not to follow its own guidelines??

Lale I xposted with yours, but your point shows what I mean. No country has left the EU before. There are no preset rules (well, I'm sure that legally there are some, but there is room for movement).

The EU can just go "No" and everyone accepts it as if there is no possibility that the EU could respond flexibly to an emerging situation to avoid distress for millions of people. This is exactly why I want to leave the EU. We are living in fast-changing times and the EU just can't respond quickly and flexibly. Good grief, even people who support it don't expect it to.

In essence, yesterday, the British Parliament voted for a strategy that is in breech of Article 8 of the Human Rights Act. The right to family life and respect for the home

An interesting point, but I wonder what impact the idea of replacing the HRA with a UK Bill Of Rights might have on such matters ...

And process hasn't started yet so it cannot be transparent or not.

puzzled seeing that the current immigration rules take no notice of that right to live together as a family, I do not expect TM to extend that right to EU citizens.
Why some people and not others? All foreigners anyway aren't they?

The fact is that negotiations can only begin after a 50 is invoked

That is not a fact, it is a decision, which could be changed if the will was there.

Getting rid of the right to a family life would be a disaster for those with severe disabilities. I have used that argument in more than one meeting regarding my son over the last few months. If you watched the Dispatches programme on St Andrew's you will understand why that is such an important law.

I do find it very strange that almost no-one seems interested in the EU's role in scuppering an early deal and that all the anger is vented at the UK gov

The EU didn't vote to leave the UK thus throwing everybody's lives into disarray, yet we are supposed to blame them for the consequences of our actions?

Not to mention, at least the EU has been mooting the idea of extending associate citizenship to those who might wish to have it - so they're not the ones subjecting people to this, are they?

Xpost wrong
I'm sure there will be some flexibility. When the negociations have started. They haven't yet because the UK still hasn't triggered Art50.

For all the EU know, there might be another legal battle ahead, another vote whatever that will put that triggering back again.

I don't agree with your logic Elements The EU didn't start Brexit, but it could have resolved the uncertainty for migrants, with the UK gov, nevertheless. I don't think arguing who started it is really the point.

The EU didn't start Brexit, but it could have resolved the uncertainty for migrants, with the UK gov, nevertheless.

They are just such a horrible entity, aren't they! Unlike us, who despite happily considering foreign-born people as bargaining chips in a situation that we created, are utterly blameless.

Can you explain then WHy the UK government didn't take the chance thatbthe EU offered them by giving Brits the EU citizenship?
Because that would have settled all the rights of Brits in the EU.

So why didn't the UK not do anything about that??

Disgusted, depressed, horrified

We are watching a car crash in slow motion.

History will judge David Cameron and that god awful decision to call a referendum

I still can't believe it's really happening

"I still can't change my initial feelings on everyone that voted leave. How dare you take a chance so big on some stupid whim."

I voted remain but it's democracy at work and it needs to be done.

The back in campaign will take at least a decade and with the precedent of the 41 years between the two referendums possibly two generations of banging on and on about this mighty mistake.

Honestly confused as to why so much is being made of the EU's supposed offer of citizenship for Brits, when as recently as December, it seems their own officials were describing the idea as a non starter?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/12/eu-citizenship-deal-for-british-nationals-has-no-chance-say-experts