Judge's warning to drunk women

[FirstShinyRobe]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

AIBU to think she had a marvellous platform with her retirement speech to issue instead a warning to men not to rape women?

Ghostly, could you please outline to us HOW you would address the behaviour of men? What actual practical steps would be taken

also increase prosecution of rape cases - start with the assumption that women are TELLING THE TRUTH

Sanction men who behave in a sexually predatory way - wolf whistling, bum pinching, slut shaming - make is ALL unacceptable

Teach women their worth AND men - stand up to all of that sexist shite - stop blaming women for mens actions

for a start

now - bed x

start with your sons-educate THEM about rape - not just your daughters!

Education doesn't work on the sickest of fuckers though. These are the people who are likely to follow a drunk woman into a park or slip GHB in her drink. They are opportunistic and know full well that what they are doing is wrong.

That statement is all well and good, but what does it actually mean? Everyone knows that rape is wrong (and indeed that all crime is wrong), but we still have people who break the laws. It's definitely not because their mummies just forgot to tell them that they can't rape a semi-conscious woman.

Advising your kids to avoid dark alleys is slut shaming, sorry but wtf

where did I say that ffs

stop putting words in my mouth - I am suggesting that you stop blaming girls actions for the behaviours of men - doing so it wrong

I also strongly disagree with saying that encouraging women to be safe is 'slut-shaming'. Seriously?

There are two different messages here - the public and the personal (for lack of better phrases) and they can exist side by side. As a society we agree that rape is something which is done to women by some men. It is abhorrent obviously and can only be prevented by those men not raping women.

On a personal level though, I have to be realistic to protect myself and my daughters. I know that advising them to take measures to protect themselves will have no overall impact on the number of women being raped but for me as their mother it means it is less likely to be them.

It is horrible to think this means it will be another woman but my job as their mother is to protect them

your problem there is begging with the idea that rapists are the 'sickest fucks' and not your brother/son/nice neighbour/teacher/best mate

start with your sons - educate THEM about rape - not just your daughters!

Not everyone has sons. How about teaching your kids to be decent human brings, not everyone is your friend, and look out for yourself and your mates.

you have a cast iron 100% right to take a fucking short cut! Why do that to yourself - you have the right to walk anywhere, anytime, anyway you want

I know I have that right but I still ended up raped because of someone else's actions. He made the choice to rape me and that is 100% his fault but there is no denying that my choice to walk through the park, in the state I was, under the conditons of the evening put me at greater risk of harm.

Did I walk into the park expecting to get hurt and raped? Of course not, but it didn't stop it happening either. I had the expectation that I could cut through the park and it turns out my rapist had the expectation that vulnerable people might make that choice and used that to his advantage.

I should be able to walk through an unlit park at 4 am and have no harm come to me, but that isn't the reality. I was raped but just as equally I could have been robbed or fallen and hurt myself and in the middle of winter I could easily have got hypothermia from lying on cold, wet grass all night until someone found me in the morning.

I have the right to go anywhere I want and do anything I want but I cannot control other people's behaviour and what they choose to do. I can only control my actions and choose to make decisions based on what will keep me the safest.

Education about safety and how predators behave is not slut shaming. And that doesn't mean we don't do anything else such as put rapists in prison or educate our sons. Lets stop jumping to such huge conclusions.

Society cant stop predatory men, men cant stop them, the police and justice system cant stop them so stop having a go at women for not stopping them.
Use every strategy you have to survive and live as you please.

you can advise about safety - I do - but in the context of mugging or gangs shit not just 'modify your behaviour as a girl because of rapists'

Rapists are not my girls/mine/your responsibility

Not all rapists are sick fuckers. Mine wasn't. He wasn't nice but he's not a sick fucker.

He has a daughter now

I have the right to go anywhere I want and do anything I want but I cannot control other people's behaviour and what they choose to do. I can only control my actions and choose to make decisions based on what will keep me the safest

fair enough but if we pass that message on to generations of women nothing ever changes and when bad things do happen people will say 'well what WHERE you doing walking there at 2am ...' and thus we are judged

I do not think we do our daughters any favours by telling them they can have all the rights and none of the responsibility. We spend our children's lives teaching them how to make safe and sensible choices. We teach them not to run out in to the road, not to get in cars with strangers, not to play in dangerous places, to be home for dinner, to call if they're going to be late, to brush their teeth and do their homework. Why, when they get to the age where alcohol rears its ugly head is it suddenly ok to say "my love you get as shit faced as you like because you've no need to be safe now". It makes no sense. Drunk people are a risk to themselves regardless of the risk other people pose. We see a&e departments heaving with them at weekends and ever increasing tragic reports of accidental deaths. How many pissed kids need to be missing for a fortnight before turning up floating in a river (or any other fatal accident scenario) before people click that alcohol and good decisions are not comfortable bedfellows?

Rape is always the fault of the rapist. There is no debate there.

TheWorldAccordingToToads

Mine was a respectable, married, prison officer - a lovely man with a loving family xxx

also increase prosecution of rape cases - start with the assumption that women are TELLING THE TRUTH

That would be entirely contrary to the legal system's presumption of innocence. It would not be possible to reverse the burden of proof without serious human rights challenges, but I agree that there should be more prosecutions. More prosecutions would not make it easier on victims though. A prosecution doesn't heal the scars that rape leaves.

Sanction men who behave in a sexually predatory way - wolf whistling, bum pinching, slut shaming - make is ALL unacceptable

I agree, but wonder whether this would actually have an impact on rape statistics. There has also been a marked decrease over time in the social acceptability of this sort of behaviour, but not necessarily in rape statistics.

Teach women their worth AND men-stand up to all of that sexist shite-stop blaming women for mens actions

Nobody is blaming women. Blame would look very different to encouraging people to take care of themselves, which in fact is empowerment. There will be criminals whatever happens though which is why we take precautions where other types of crime is concerned, but think it is abhorrent to suggest it when it comes to sexual offences.

I do not think we do our daughters any favours by telling them they can have all the rights and none of the responsibility I haven't suggested we do that have I?

It's not your kids job to prevent gang violence or mugging, so why advise them about it? It's not their fault if it happens to them and for you, that's all that matters.

If your house gets burgled it's always the burglars fault. You would still be wise to lock the door and not leave it wide open.
She gave sensible advice , there is no need to twist what she said.

a prosecution goes a fuck of a long way to healing scars - trust me I worked in the area for 15 years!

The judge did address rapists behaviour. In fact, she issued a warning to the "male public" about consent. The BBC hasn't reported this but other media outlets have.

She would have given a pretty substantial speech at a sentencing for such a serious crime. Taking snippets of it out of context doesn't help anybody.

Education about safety and how predators behave is not slut shaming.

This. Walking down isolated alleyways at midnight isn't slut shaming. It's just common bloody sense on how to try and keep yourself safe!
Stick to well lit main roads if walking. Always try and arrange a lift home or pre-book a cab home in your name if out for the night.

I need my bed - please carry on

I was raped

It was not my fault

Not all rapists are sick fuckers. Mine wasn't. He wasn't nice but he's not a sick fucker

Yes, they are sick fuckers. Not to the rest of the world, maybe, but anyone who violates another human's dignity to that extent is a sick fucker in my book. Having a daughter does not make him less of one.

What FlyingElbows said.

I'm going to bed now and I'm going to lock the front door, because leaving it open would increase my burglary risk. I'm not locking it to give a message to burglars that I'm responsible for their acts, I'm just trying to decrease my risk. There is no argument here.

Rape is always and unequivocally the fault of the rapist.

There are measures women would be well advised to take to try to keep themselves safe from these predators.

I have never understood why some feminists see these two things as mutually exclusive. Discussing self protection does not imply that the victim is in some way to blame. That just doesn't follow on any level.