Judge's warning to drunk women

[FirstShinyRobe]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

AIBU to think she had a marvellous platform with her retirement speech to issue instead a warning to men not to rape women?

Telling men not to rape won't work though will it. Whereas if women avoid getting blind drunk they are less likely to get raped. (Although probably they will just carry on getting drunk anyway and ignore the advice).

Why can't people see the difference between useful advice and victim blaming?

I lock my door at night but that doesn't mean that I won't be burgled. My next door neighbours were burgled because they prised open the window. I felt a bit guilty because I didn't hear a thing. But I'm not taking that shit of guilt. No way.

Anyway, I can't leave my vagina at home. It's with me all the time, nor can I lock it either. I'm a human being and I deserve to be free in this world. Those who rape should be locked up. Their freedom taken away.

So why can't people understand the difference between being able to enjoy life as a human on this planet and the freedom that goes with that and those who cause others to be fearful and constricted in their movements.

Couple of young men fall into the canal drunk and die. The response is not to walk home alone whilst drunk and look after your friends on a night out. These are tragic deaths that young people should be aware of.

Telling women not to get drunk because someone might rape them and then they are not believed? Totally different. The OP is right on this. A missed opportunity to tell young men not to rape. It's very simple. How people cannot see this, is beyond me.

So going out and getting drunk with men is risky behaviour now?

Lock up all men I say and make sure your daughter enjoys her night out.

The fact that messages concerning the dangers of making yourself vulnerable are not communcated equally amongst the sexes is a form of subtle sexism... if advice is to be given it should be done evenly and not focussed on women.

However, just because there's a problem with how messages tend to be skewed towards women doesn't mean the message itself is invalid.

I will tell both my son and daughter to be careful because being paralyticly drunk is dangerous and risky whoever you are.

As for the argument that rapists would rape anyway... I'm not sure that's true for crime. Make it more difficult and you probably do dissuade some, the same for any crime.... I don't hear people say, "burglars are going to burgle anyway, so why bother with keys!"

But it doesn't work. How many times over what 50, 60, 70 years have we heard this message. If it was such brilliant advice why has nothing changed. This advice achieves nothing. I do not know one single woman who has never done one of the things that are seen as "risky" , not one. And my mother knew nothing about it and still doesnt. So as it appears to have no bloody affect whatsoever how about trying another message.

And why bother with alarms on your house and cctv? The burglars will get into your house no matter what.

They can pretend to be the person who has come to read the meter. This happened in my street to a vulnerable couple. Were they to blame in this? They let someone they didn't know into their home. They were robbed.

This news article is so depressing. As someone who was raped outside a nightclub when I was drunk (over twenty years ago now) this sort of victim blaming makes me so angry. Why should I take any responsibility for my rape (which I firmly believe would have happened whether I was drinking or not)?

My issue with what she said isn't so much the warning that women need to look after themselves and not drink excessively on nights out (this is common sense surely and applies to men as well?) but that she didn't mention men's behaviour at all. She could have said the women should avoid excessive drinking but that men should also think whether their actions are appropriate and if a woman is almost unconscious from drinking then they should know that touching them sexually was assault. I hate the way women are blamed for everything men do to them but I also think that until we don't live in a world where some men prey on drunken women we need to take some responsibility for our own safety and not put ourselves into vulnerable situations. This advice goes for men as well. Look after yourself because if you don't then no one else will.

Yes, indeed, why should women enjoying a night out be deemed as risky behaviour. Are we not supposed to be equal in our enjoyment?

I feel we have gone back to the middle ages with this.

I've not read the full thread so apologies if I am repeating a point already made. I had a horrible experience years ago when I was hammered and went home with a guy and some of his friends. We drank some more and I went to bed and I woke up to find him having sex with me. I kicked him off me and got a cab home. BUT had I been sober I can't see it would have been different really. I sort of knew him. He was a nice guy. I liked him and I liked his friends. If he'd tried to have sex with me and I didn't want it, I'd probably have done it because I had 'led him on'. What I'm trying to say is I understand now - and this is about 20 years on - that it was about him, not me. And someone who thought it was okay to have sex with a drunk girl who was passed out, probably wouldn't think much of a sober girl saying no...

I'd give the same advice to my boys tbfh.

No doubt rape is the rapists fault, but anything that can reduce the odds a little is worth bearing in mind.

Eldon, there is enjoying a few drinks out, and getting totally inebriated that you are slumped on the floor. Irresponsible behaviour for both sexes don't you think!

So why don't we just admit it and say that nights out with the boys and girls don't mix. It can't happen. Unless you either are in a non drinking establishment with parents at your shoulders. Or in a single sex environment and never the twain shall meet.

Wednesday for the boys/men to go out and Thursday for the girls/women. All given taxis home.

But it's like saying Aero that no nights out because some drink to excess. Do you not get this?

Some people will drink to excess. If you are going out on a night then this is what will happen.

What is being said is that women should not drink at all. Her perfectly non alcoholic drink might be spiked. Does her ensuing rape make it any different to someone who is raped and inebriated?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

She said women "are entitled to do what they like" but asked them to "please be aware there are men out there who gravitate towards a woman who might be more vulnerable than others".
"That's my final line, in my final criminal trial, and my final sentence," she concluded.

I can't get worked up about this.

She said the elderly (in relation to home security) "are entitled to do what they like" but asked them to "please be aware there are people out there who gravitate towards a people who might be more vulnerable than others".

There wouldn't even be a thread started...

I don't think anyone on here who is suggesting that this is a valid message is saying it doesn't apply equally to men and women.... the fact it hasn't been applied in that way doesn't invalidate the message. For instance, if i said that smoking harms black people's health, the fact there's no good reason why I shouldn't have focussed on black people doesn't therefore mean smoking isn't a health hazard - that would be an utterly ridiculous conclusion yet that's the false logic followed on this thread...

And to follow up on my earlier comment, if a rapist will rape regardless of any preventative measures taken, why is this crime different to others in this respect? If we took this approach to all crime, the argument would be to cease all preventative measures entirely.... no keys (they'll steal anyway) no airport security (terrorists will attack anyway), no online passwords (scammers will hack anyway); no PINs (fraudsters will steal anyway); leave young children and babies unattended (abductors will abduct anyway).....it just does not follow that the fact rape is ALWAYS the responsibility of the rapist that people should not take precautionary measures. The fact men and women may not be treated equally in this regard is no reason to throw all common sense out of the window!

So despite imbibing in drugs and alcohol, the victim was able to scream, a good form of defence. There are women who are raped, perfectly sober, who cannot scream due to fear. What's the difference? None.

Both were raped.

Both men were rapists.

The same analogy - 'make sure you dont cross roads at night because you may well be hit by a speeding car' if there are casualties in this situation, the blame lies entirely with the driver. Drunken women being taking advantage of or RAPED however, the blame lies directly with them...

What is being said is that women should not drink at all.

Who is saying this... it's a gross exaggeration!

If I was a twenty year old woman, young, healthy, free adult, I would find it most insulting that I was aligned with an elderly couple who were robbed after I'd been raped.

But common sense would be to view that all men are rapists. Is this the view I should have with regard to my 15 year old son?

Give a person a fish. They eat for a day. Teach a person to fish. They eat for a lifetime.

Tell women not to get drunk. You (possibly) stop a few individuals from getting raped.

Tell men (repeatedly) not to rape. You might actually address the root of the problem.

It's worth a try, surely. This is what I don't get. Why are people SO adverse to even giving it a try...?

Cocnutella it is always the way in these discussions. Pp already have their view formed and will use hysterical sweeping generalisations and exaggerations that ultimately harm their agenda.

It's a pity, but it always happens.