To be terrified about what will happen if the Gender Identity Bill is passed?

[TheWorldAccordingToToads]

I'm a nervous wreck right now

Will it replace sex as a protected characteristic? Does that mean that women will have no legal protection at all?

I'm scared .

But blatantly people are allowed to talk about it. We're doing so here. It's all over the internet, it's been reported in the mainstream press, you can see from the reactions on Maria Miller's Twitter page that it's widely known and widely talked about. This honestly isn't some hidden isolated little enclave.

icyfront, I don't think I can explain the set up in the hospital I was in but there wasn't any real barrier between the bays, the bed backing onto mine had a man in it and the bed next to me had a woman in it and privacy was limited. The curtains weren't great either and seemed to have a mind of their own when it came to ensuring you weren't on show when being examined. The bed next to me was more private as my bed and curtains gave them more shelter. Thinking about how it was arranged the bed I was in was the most exposed so I don't think a man in the next bed would have been any worse.

My daughter has been in the same hospital on a different ward, the bays were more private and I think they were for 4 people, but as a shy teenager she hated the unisex bathrooms and would only shower when I was there to stand guard on the door. The problem there wasn't particularly the men but doors with very ineffective locks.

Re psychiatric hospitals I think they can be very scary anyway. One of my family works in a secure unit for women with very serious mental health problems, many with a forensic diagnosis. My relative has been subjected to physical violence, threats, been spat at and had blood thrown at them. I think we need plenty of staff and lots of supervision regardless of patient gender.

Megatherium

It's only recently been reported in the mainstream press.

You would have to know all about Maria Miller and her intentions in order to seek out her Twitter. Plus you would have to be on Twitter in the first place.

I have been thinking about and reading about this for about two years. But I am the only person amongst my friends who has.

I have noticed in the last three or four weeks, that more and more people on here are realising the implications. A year ago every trans thread was peppered with accusations of transphobia. But as people read the links and drill down to expose the implications, that is decreasing very rapidly.

The two feminists who have spoken out on mainstream media have both concentrated on the fact that men and women are socialised differently. They only hinted at the abuse and silencing tactics. They didn't mention autogynephilia, they didn't mention that the legal definition of the word woman is to be re-defined, they didn't mention that this will, and does, directly lead to women's spaces losing protection.

They are only scratching the surface, because the rest of the issues are still underground.

It may well be deliberate. Personally I think it's because these issues are not well known. Most people, who value inclusivity, have a knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of the ideology. It's only when you really look that the flaws are exposed.

Where has this been reported in the mainstream press? I havent heard anything about this except on Mumsnet

Everyone I mention this to IRL gives me a "you WHAT??? Nah, no way, I dont believe you, theres no way thats even being discussed" seriously, last 5 or 6 people laughed at me.

I dont really care for Twitter although a quick look on Maria Millers doesnt reveal its widely talked about at all, and if you google Gender Identity Bill the only results that come up in the News section are for the USA.

Id really like to see the mainstream press articles relating to this if you can link, TIA.

Even what is currently happening in the prison service was dismissed by my DH ( who does follow the general news) as impossible. (Male accused of sexual assault on woman insisting on being treated as a woman while at YOI and having female officers conducting personal searches.)

DH was the same, Springy - dismissed the idea of male athletes competing as female as 'No, I think you must have misheard that.'

You would almost think they don't care because they aren't affected.

Yes, DH didn't believe me about the prison thing either. I would bet that would be most peoples reaction too...basically 'oh that cant possibly be true, you are trying to justify transphobia by making up stuff'

Obviously DH didn't put it quite like that..but I can quite imagine that being the thought process. As DH lives with me he couldn't just shut me down though and eventually did look up on this stuff himself and is absolutely horrified by it all. He says he genuinely did think I was working myself up over nothing and that these reports of men in womens prisons, men being allowed into womens bathrooms and assaulting them/kids in there etc. were just 'fake news' on random websites designed to whip up transphobia. Rather than the actual truth.

He also did not know that people are classed as 'trans' without having (or seriously intending to get) SRS. He thinks Daniella Muscato and that Alex dude are just taking the piss openly about the whole situation. I am not so sure about that though, I do think they are genuine and believe all the rubbish they say

The sports thing he was adamant that could not ever happen. So I showed him the Fallon Fox video and he sat open mouthed then the first thing he said was 'I just watched a dude kick the shit out of a woman...wtf'. He does a lot of gym/training stuff and (I don't know if this is true as I know nothing about that) he said he could tell that fallon was a guy even just by the way 'she' stood, the way 'she' punched and so on. Apparently guys do this stuff different to females.

If DH dares repeat his 'Oh, here we go again...' the next time I mention it, I think the balance of female vs male violence might just be reversed this once.

I'm not very big, but I'll bite his bloody kneecaps.

If anyone is having trouble with their DH understanding. This link usually hit them straight between the eyes.

Especially about half way down past the big block of blue.

anti-female-receipts.tumblr.com/

None of it is made up.

Wanking my DH is exactly the same. In fact we have had a few blazing rows about this. But he is slowly starting to get it. He even texted me to read Rachel Johnson's article as he has read it at the airport (as he was at pains to excuse his reading the DM).

It is NOT mainstream. Just last night I was telling a very good friend about it and you could tell that she thought I was exaggerating. It's the same reaction I have had from everyone I have mentioned, except one woman who was delighted to have someone to talk to about it

Datun..from your link this stood out so much...how can anyone think this is ok?!

anti-female-receipts.tumblr.com/post/157229676578/fuck-you-you-terf-bitch-how-can-a-15-year-old-be

Possible trigger warning..above link. Very violent

wanking

The aspect that really, really got to me was that the girl wasn't even surprised.

Moreover, it is that exact stance and attitude that has led to the CPS approving guidelines wherin they say it's fine for young lesbians to give blowjobs.

Meanwhile on BBC radio news bulletin I have just learned that a US actor has tweeted about rehab. News values are a daily source of irritation..

If anybody is aware of any articles in the mainstream press that discuss this bill and explain why people aren't happy about the concept of 'gender identity', it would be helpful to provide links.

Just had a conversation with DH gave him a lecture with power point and web links this afternoon about the bill, after he said "why are you so bothered about this".

He is very informed politically, much more than I am. He watches news channels almost exclusively and listens to LBC radio in the car. He had barely an inkling about this and it was only when I spelled out the implications for our daughter that he got it... and he didn't really believe me regarding most of it, I had to show him links and shit because he thought I had got the wrong end of the stick.

Same with my parents. It really isn't being discussed socially on any great level and baring in mind this bill has implications for everyone, male, female, trans, whatever, you would think it should be.

ben

What bits didn't he get, or was surprised at, specifically, if you don't mind me asking? And what were the bits that made him sit up and take notice?

I'm so immersed in this but sometimes I'm not sure what the temperature check is with other people?

My DH was aghast at cross dressing fetishists being included as trans. He got the implication of that bit instantly! He now just agrees with the rest as it comes up.

How come Ireland is so right-on and PC that they passed a gender identification law like this, yet they still don't even have legal abortion rights?

It's a perfect illustration of misogyny in action. #biologymatters Progressive legislation to improve the lot of born males = of course! Progressive legislation to improve the lives of born females = how dare you! (PS No-one needs to point out that transmen also benefit. Ido wonder how far this movement would have progressed if ONLY transmen were campaigning.)

Well, no. That's not really it. The short answer is that the gender identification proposal was passed by the Dáil as simple legislation, whereas abortion rights require a change to the constitution (not just legislation) and hence a referendum. The long answer as to why there hasn't been a referendum yet has a whole recent thread devoted to it.

Ireland is extremely homophobic- its probably ore acceptable for a man to transition gender than to come out as gay. Ditto other very religious places such as Iran

To use an old MN favourite, are you on glue? Ireland is as homophobic as the UK, which is to say homophobia certainly exists in pockets but it's not the mainstream social norm, and there are many out gay and lesbian people in the media, sports, politics, etc. Ireland even voted for marriage equality by referendum, so it really was the population as a whole behind it.

So comparing Ireland to Iran in terms of religious conservatism - seriously? Fuck off to the far side of fuck with your ill-informed cultural imperialism.

My DH said of the guy on remand for sex offences against women out of the blue demanding to be treated as a woman in Scotland YOI:

"Well the prison authorities will tell him where to go!"

And was flabbergasted when i pointed out that, no, that is not what has been reported as happening.

There has been no coverage of the Bill because it has not a snowball's chance in hell of making progress - it has not even been fully drafted.

As for the wider issue: there are, I fear, some in the media who are scratching their arses on the horns of a dilemma. They don't want to appear misogynistic; they don't want to appear transphobic. They've got a problem.

As for the wider issue: there are, I fear, some in the media who are scratching their arses on the horns of a dilemma. They don't want to appear misogynistic; they don't want to appear transphobic. They've got a problem.

So they are happy to sit on their arses and appear like mealy mouthed cowards whilst women are the ones blogging, writing letters to MPs, badgering people on Twitter etc.

Datun - he had assumed that it was simply people with gender dysphoria (although he wouldn't phrase it like that) and that we should just live and let live (a sentiment that I shared up until about a year ago). He was shocked at my stance because I am by far the more lefty one in the relationship.

He was aghast at the rhetoric that transwomen are actually female. This was the bit that I had to show him evidence for because he was sure I had the wrong end of the stick.

He had never considered cross dressing as a fetish that heterosexual men indulge in and had assumed it was only ultra feminine gay men that wanted to live like women.

He thought that self identification was ludicrous and that nobody could be so stupid to think it was a good idea because, and I quote "well you're going to get blokes charged with rape who then claim to be a women to get moved to a women's prison" and laughingly added "and they'll be saying a women raped a women", he was joking and when I told him that that's already happening and showed him articles on Lisa Huxwell he just stared at me. However, it wasn't until I explained that potentially our daughter could be forced to change in front of teenage boys when at secondary school, even if she was uncomfortable doing so and neither she nor we would have any grounds to object, that he got it. Even then he said, "well we could just move her to a private all girls school" to which I informed him that effectively they wouldn't exist anymore - that clinched it.

So they are happy to sit on their arses and appear like mealy mouthed cowards whilst women are the ones blogging, writing letters to MPs, badgering people on Twitter etc.

Agreed; except that many of the media arse-scratchers are women.

It is only in the media when something like "first man to have a baby" hits the headlines.

When I mention it to my friends re sport, etc they just look at me with the expression she's off on her box again / it is only equality what's the problem. I was like that until a year ago when I started reading about it on MN,