To be terrified about what will happen if the Gender Identity Bill is passed?

[TheWorldAccordingToToads]

I'm a nervous wreck right now

Will it replace sex as a protected characteristic? Does that mean that women will have no legal protection at all?

I'm scared .

I know I'm kind of holding a candle waiting for a flame, but I think a petition should be started, hopefully women countrywide will email their MP's about this. I don't know the ins and outs of this as good as others do. It would be good if the DM posted something positive about MN instead of stupid irrelevant clickbait.

Like it's been mentioned, it's not only women who will suffer, but children too. Children need to recover if a safe environment from the traumas they've gained hearing and seeing violence, if not experiencing it themselves. It was only last week we had a sister on here, getting her brother to help her sister, from a husband who is widely respected presumably, plus the niece was a target too.

I don't know how many followed the Helen Archer campaign, but if you think of this in terms of that, if Helen was in a hostel and Rob thought for one minute he could see Henry and Jack by ranting on about being trans and a victim, here's my scar kinda thing. He's an example of who women need protecting against, albeit fictional, but you can see how it could be twisted.

Thank you Tumble you made fantastic points, also the way you act is really considerate too. Wishing you all the best

A girl/woman who doesn't want to get changed in front of a transwoman/trans girl or a boy who "identifies as a girl" is not transphobia and it's certainly not a hate crime. To suggest that it is is quite frankly insulting to people (myself included) who have been on the receiving end of hate crimes.

TumbleTrans I really appreciate your posts on here, the language you use and way of explaining things is succinct and clear. I again am going to try and explain this situation to DD1...

that you have had to endure hate crime

tumble I feel bad reading you won't use public loos because I am more than happy for trans women to be in there.
What I want is to retain the right to be able to challenge people acting suspiciously. A trans woman is no issue to me at all.
If more trans people could see being accepted in women's spaces as a courtesy extended to them rather than a right that would help a lot.

By people I mean men. Not like me to not say men in these posts, sorry

I think that on first glance a gender self identification law looks good; it looks inclusive and very pro-trans rights which is why I think there have been a couple of posters on here feeling confused about why people are against it.

However I don't think people are thinking about what gender self identification actually means and how it could be open to abuse; they aren't thinking about the bigger picture here.

Apologies for singling out one poster but Iris is the perfect example of this. She has expressed concern for trans women; she has talked about hate crime against us as well as suicide and poor mental health. She seems to believe that trans women should be using female facilities and of course she is entitled to think that but at the same time she is very pro self identification .

So if I used the ladies toilet because I'm at risk from violent men in the gents, what's actually stopping those violent men from self identifying their way into the ladies and assaulting me there instead? Isn't that what gender self identification means?

Great post Tumble

Surely by the logic of the TA supporters on this thread, you are by default transphobic because you also oppose the bill?

Maybe something for those 'post and run' people to have a think about...

Yeah exactly tumble
The logical end point is not to have sex segregation at all. Yet most people would baulk at that.

Thanks Bev!

It's very hard to get any help right now from the POV that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue because everyone is so afraid to suggest that it is for fear of coming across as bigoted. If self identification becomes law then it's just going to be impossible imo . Is that what people want?

I don't know what the answer to that is tbh. Possibly looking into private treatment via a psychologist? Ime psychologists tend to focus on the problem at hand using a wider toolkit than counsellors. Obviously there is a cost implication though
Maybe ask your GP what they think and be upfront that you want help with dysphoria. for you

Hmm .. I remember having read somewhere about a woman who managed to get help for her gender dysphoric daughter by looking for psychotherapists who were specialised on anorexia.
Perhaps that'd be a route you can go ... though you would have to find one who hasn't drunk the Koolaid and isn't afraid.

I am more than happy for trans women to be in there.

But what is a trans women? How is this defined?

A person presenting as female, who comes in to take a leak, have a poo, and wash their hands. I probably wouldn't notice tbh. And it's no skin off my nose. Similarly though I wouldn't care about sharing with a man if he was just using the facilities. In fact I've used the gents a lot as a young'un when the queues in the ladies were too long.
A man wearing a dress and acting shifty, staring, generally having an odd vibe would alarm me and I want to ask them to leave. I think there are a lot of pervs out there who want to video/recording women on the toilet and I really don't want to make that easy for them.

Tumble you truly are the voice of reason, I think you're the voice of common sense. Those jumping up and down about hate crimes etc, just think it's a band wagon to jump on. Most of us would never knowingly be horrid to anyone in any circumstances. I think sometimes people are quick to jump on, oh you're being racist, sexist, transphobic.

Where are all these public loos! We hardly have any around here. I joke to the children I will leave my fortune to the local council to put back the only one locally which they totally removed. And it's the old people with weak bladders I feel sorry for in relation to this.

Do people really use public toilets at lot? My vision of those is in a park, poo and wee all over the floor, stinking, men soliciting or people taking drugs and best instead to go behind a bush or hang on until you get home.

Or those automatic ones in Central London which are for men and women which you pay quite a bit for, go in and hope it doesn't do the automatic cleaning thing whilst you're still in - they are not nice either.

Where are all these public loos?

M&S, McDonald's, cinemas, restaurants, gyms, swimming pools etc. I assume public to mean 'not my own toilet/shower/changing room in a private home'

(I used council loos a lot when my children were small. There are still some out there! )

This is the prison case I think you were looking for
www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article134353039.html

A person presenting as female, who comes in to take a leak, have a poo, and wash their hands. I probably wouldn't notice tbh. And it's no skin off my nose. Similarly though I wouldn't care about sharing with a man if he was just using the facilities.

I'm confused, I really am. Any man can present as a woman, Many men who describe themselves as trans women are still physically male and are still attracted to women. I can't see any reason for any man being in women's toilets full stop.

Can anyone tell me if I can join fb anonomously? As in fake name & it won't tell people on my email lists it is me etc?

I feel safe with Twitter etc but allways avoided fb for safety, but if it's only on fb there's group for this I might if I can do it safely