To be terrified about what will happen if the Gender Identity Bill is passed?

[TheWorldAccordingToToads]

I'm a nervous wreck right now

Will it replace sex as a protected characteristic? Does that mean that women will have no legal protection at all?

I'm scared .

augustbody, if I need to see a doctor I don't expect a line up. I am grateful for what the NHS provides and count my blessings

And yet you can choose to see a male or female doctor. It is recognised that for many people this makes a difference.

However that makes no sense if you can only choose a doctor on the basis of how they identify.

The right either exists or it doesn't. If it was generally thought sexist to insist on a same sex doctor the right wouldn't exist.

Don't feel bad. It was along time and alot of therapy ago. I just hate the 'but what about poor victims of females who are scared by male doctors'.

Shockingly enough I can think and speak for myself. And I suspect for all victims of any kind of sexual abuse we have different experiences and may hold different choices on whether we prefer male or female hcp. But we have a right to that individual choice being supported. Or atleast we should.

Elvish - read the whole thread - carefully - educate yourself (the answers are all here and have been discussed already!)

I just wanted to say to Wobbly any any others who have been victims, I'm really sorry and totally horrified that you've had to have such horrific experiences. (Sorry I couldn't remember everyone's name) You're really strong for sharing your experiences. There's just no words at all that could compensate for your experiences

I skim read the post, is there a petition so people can widely condemn this bill? Like the ones that get read in parliament after so many signatures? Also I think as advocated sharing your experiences and concerns with your MP should make a difference.

Was also wondering if this had been highlighted in other sections, with a link to this post so as many as possible are aware and take action.

Wobbly, once again, I'm so sorry to hear what you had to go through.

Re. changing, by 10 some of the girls will be going through puberty. And children of both sexes may be beginning to feel uncomfortable getting changed in front of the opposite sex. My son was quite uncomfortable when his school organised swimming lessons recently, and because they don't have enough male teachers/TAs to supervise in the changing rooms, the boys ended up having to do the "change under a towel" trick on the edge of the pool. He really felt quite uncomfortable about the experience. He would very much rather have a male only space to change in. (And I don't see that as pandering to him, I see that as respecting his right to privacy.)

There is a petition on the citizen go website. There's links either here on or one of the recent trans threads. Sadly it's a v right wing organisation which makes it difficult to share the actual petition without receiving abuse back! Sad that no mainstream or feminist organisations didn't come up with a petition

wobbly

Does anyone have a link to the women in jail who were abused when trans were masturbating in front of them in USA I cant find anything. I am begining to think i hallucinated it being mentioned!

Maybe it's something we could do, I wouldn't really know how to word it though, that's not my strong point.

Would you sign it if it was created?

I would sign, and share on Twitter & email my address book. My dyslexia & disgraphia's pretty severe so I know I wouldn't do anything like that justice, but I'd back it 100%

Here's the way I see it; I think everybody deserves rights and deserves to be accepted for who they are. I think that everyone should be free to live their lives free from violence and discrimination.

However I am a firm believer that one groups rights do not trump another groups rights and once you begin to erode another the rights of another group then that is where you have to draw the line. Does anybody here disagree with this? If you do, then feel free to jump in and tell me.

In this case; trans women should be accepted, protected from violence and hate crime and be allowed to live our lives without discrimination.

However what we can not do is decide that our needs are more important than those of women and girls and start eroding the rights of women and girls in order for us to gain rights. As soon as you start deciding your rights are more important than someone else's and you're hurting other people or making them feel unsafe or uncomfortable then that's the point where you've gone too far imo and you need to step back.

Does anybody disagree with me here? If you do then please feel free to tell me. I'm always open to other opinions.

Granny going for the Mumsnet record on the number of Strawmen you can fit in one post.

Willow I saw that too but I think it's been removed Willow I saw that. Looks like it's been removed. www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/23/1112262/--Male-rapist-put-into-women-s-prison#

maleviolence.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/alanna-gallagher-was-smothered-with-plastic-bags-and-had-her-watch-stolen-by-neighbor-17-who-raped-and-killed-her-mail-online.pdf

maleviolence.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/man-dressed-as-woman-charged-with-sexually-assaulting-of-boy-nbc-10-philadelphia.pdf

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/crossdresser-cabbie-convicted-of-rape-958087

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10661305

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Cambridge/The-Cambridge-Rapist-is-dead.htm

www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/20130306/torrance-police-use-dna-to-tie-slain-would-be-rapist-to-1990-venice-murder

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1561244/posts

deadspin.com/5913641/the-comeback-pig-marv-albert-and-how-to-survive-any-sex-scandal

southwestminneapolis.patch.com/groups/editors-picks/p/naked-man-in-high-heels-flees-police-near-minnehaha-creek

www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-for-the-man-in-the-black-bikini-20120217-1tcqh.html
prepper62

May 5 @ 4:50PM
www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2007Apr26/0,4675,NothingButHeels,00.html

www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=13211762

mugshots.com/Current-Events/ALAN-RUCHTY.57312188.html

positiveleo.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/police-chase-man-in-leotard-blonde-wig-and-high-heels/

kfor.com/2013/03/07/man-caught-on-tape-in-high-heel-heist/

articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-07-09/news/os-ocala-man-arrested-stabbing-20100709_1_knife-wielding-man-high-heels-stabbing

www.houmatoday.com/article/20080417/ARTICLES01/804170332

www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=7319410

www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Greatest_Mug_Shots_of_the_2000s

news.asiantown.net/r/4886/man-posing-as-woman-solicits-child-to-commit-a-lewd-act

www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/cross-dressing-policeman-in-oz-caught-in-an-offensive-act-by-officers_100490082.html

news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/act-police-seek-crossdressing-flasher-20110325-1c9rt.html
prepper62

May 5 @ 5:07PM

newsok.com/keep-it-briefs-court-tells-inmate/article/2543537

www.postandcourier.com/article/20090924/ARCHIVES/309249882

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/arrest-over-cross-dresser-indecency-1-5266629

clintontwp.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/leopard-print-wearing-clinton-township-man-arrested-fc8754a17c6

newsok.com/man-found-in-trunk-arrestedbrbethany-resident-faces-charges-of-burglary-indecent-exposure./article/2903448

blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/2008/09/29/man-charged-in-green-lake-flashings/

www.liveleak.com/view?i=784_1273701504

www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/flasher-wearing-women-s-tights-could-be-jailed-1-1296754

www.abqjournal.com/76441/north/man-accused-of-exposing-self.html

www.redditchadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/8713096.print/

www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Man-42-guilty-having-child-porn/story-12674678-detail/story.html#axzz2d4s5yzfu

newsok.com/flasher-suspect-admits-wearing-womans-garter-belt/article/2388413

prepper62

May 5 @ 5:22PM
www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/2438876.police_hunt_stockings_and_suspender_beltclad_man_who_exposed_himself/

azstarnet.com/news/local/northwest/police-reports/article_74c490bb-faa8-561c-82b4-85885606920e.html

www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/features/drugged-boxer-is-found-in-women-s-underwear-1-908902

articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-04-16/news/9604160243_1_pizzeria-burglarizing-police

www.topix.net/forum/city/st-cloud-fl/TPFDLQ9DC1S8A2EFI

lakewood-oh.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/blotter-man-wearing-women-s-underwear-guns-impound-an45d0dc380c

www.cleveland.com/lakewood/index.ssf/2012/07/man_seen_standing_outside_wear.html

portwashington-wi.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/saukville-woman-s-neighbor-proves-to-be-a-real-drag

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385889/Joel-Hardman-wore-female-rubber-mask-wig-spy-women-public-toilets.html#ixzz1Mvhf2oLs

www.dailycamera.com/ci_13107916

www.deseretnews.com/article/640193236/Police-arrest-man-in-womens-clothes.html?pg=all

www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/02/man_suspected_of_donning_women.html

www.bringmethenews.com/2013/02/28/bra-sh-flash-police-seek-man-wearing-nothing-but-brassiere2/

crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2009/02/you-are-sexy-says-man-wearing.html/

en.rocketnews24.com/2013/08/18/the-curious-case-of-the-osaka-pink-bra-snatcher/

Sorry for all the typos in that post. I am tired but hopefully people still understand where I'm coming from.

Wobbly - that is horrific. .

I do not use female changing rooms or toilets. That's because I know that some women will not feel comfortable with me there. I don't want to upset anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable. To me, that's just respecting other people. It would be very twatty of me to use those places knowing fine well that people were upset by my presence.

There are so many useful, insightful links being posted here - thank you all!
Wombers Awaken
Many seem to be asking what can be done to address the problem of policies and practices being implemented that are enacting Maria Miller's recommendations, regardless of whether her Amendment gets any further hearing (24 March second reading) .... here are some ideas:-

1. every time you see a form that uses 'gender' rather than 'sex' - please correct it and respond as Male/Female rather than any other nonsense that may be printed there a 'a choice'!
2. Write to local councils, the Girl Guides, the NSPCC (re - safeguarding implications), your PTA, school governors etc AS WELL AS your MP!
3. Talk to people - support Jenni Murray etc etc etc I really don't think most people realise what's already happening and that they think they are protected under the EA10 and will be horrified to receive a police caution for a hate crime when all they've done is seek to have their female (sex) rights recognised under the actual law!
4. So, legally, what can be done about current practices? Well, on Facebook there's a page called The Women's Movement UK and there's a discussion there about getting legal advice - which lawyer to instruct; what to ask; whether to crowdfund etc ... so join the discussion there perhaps? I think that there may well soon be a FB Group which will bring together those voicing concern, across a range of groups, to focus activity on obtaining some legal 'push backs' against current policies and practices that 'exceed' the current protections of the EA10. I do hope so, anyway.

Finally - I am sooo relieved that wombers are talking about this and won't be told to STFU any more (bravo Jenni Murray, eh? )

Has the post about the prison been removed then? It was definitely there yesterday. On a related note has anyone noticed it's very hard to find these incidents by googling, unless you know specifics like names or places? I've tried many variants to find the prison story but no luck, all the results are about one transgender person who was allegedly harassed in jail. Just one person taking up pages of results, shows the agenda really

Well said TumbleTrans! I think that most of us recognise that TransActivists and their extreme approach does not represent the behaviour of most transpeople who generally are just trying to get along with life - which, as we all know, means being considerate and tolerant of others!

I am sorry if someone has already posted this link but I've come to this late and can't read all messages.
www.transgendertrend.com/transgender-equality-debate-in-parliament/
This is a useful link with further info about the first reading of the debate.

no one's rights are being taken away.

Is there a way that gender identity and sex won't cancel each other out?

It's an ADDITION.

Is it? I would say it's a replacement rather than an addition.

Get a grip, listen to what you just effectively said and stop being transphobic

I may be wrong but this thread wasn't actually about transgendered people, it was meant to be about gender self identification which doesn't really have anything to do with trans.

Disagreeing with self identification is not transphobic. I'm a trans woman and even I disagree with it. Quite a few transgendered people disagree with it, which may or may not surprise you to hear.

Gender self identification sounds a bit vague and wishy washy to me. I'm not sure I like the sound of this bill.

The idea that anyone is "terrified" that someone now can't be discriminated against in law is frankly disgusting.

Last time I checked, we already have legal protection.

From what I understand, if this bill is enforced then it won't change anything when it comes to protecting transgendered people, it just means that anyone can self identify as any gender they want whenever they want. Like I said, I don't think I like the sound of it.

Thanks MeMyself, some great ideas there.

Wobbly I'm glad you were able to access the support you needed to help move on from that horrific start

Well said Tumbletrans. As ever, the voice of reason in an increasing tide of insanity. Most trans are just getting on with their life and dont need all this craziness in thier lives. Everyone has rights to privacy and safety just not at the expense of others.

Damm.....broke my own rule of links and didnt save it for future reference

Thanks for contributing, TumbleTrans.

I expect we will not hear from Granny again, you always seem to be able to frighten the 'wacktivists away.